May 25, 2021

Equal Standard Movie Producer: “everyone has different agendas” in policing

Taheim Bryan writer and producer of movie Equal Standard

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Join Sgt. Tom Datro and his guest Taheim Bryan, the writer and producer of the movie Equal Standard as they talk about systemic racism and the American police force. They compare policing styles in different parts of the country, and share statistics as they discuss the murder of George Floyd. They also have an uncomfortable conversation about what happens when people make "generalizations" about a community based on the color of their skin.

In this episode you will learn:

  • What inspired Taheim Bryan to write Equal Standard
  • “I got convicted from the womb” - Taheim Bryan

  • How America witnessed a "modern day lynching" with George Floyd
  • Agendas, Police Oaths, Racial Profiling and Redlining in Policing 
  • Understanding the difference between "living vs surviving" and how "living well is a privilege.

Watch Equal Standard: 


Connect with Taheim Bryan on:





Connect with Policing in America Podcast on:




Everyone has different agendas when when they choose to take that oath and put on that blue uniform whether they're going to protect and serve or who they want to protect and serve and who they want to target that's just that's just the way the narrative is not only with the police with the legal justice system with redlining

welcome to policing in america a podcast about race and policing the good the bad and the ugly the goal is to have uncomfortable conversations to spark positive change my name is sergeant tom datro i'm currently the officer in charge of a unit that creates delivers and maintains police training in the largest urban police department on the west coast of america hi everybody welcome to the policing in america podcast today i am very excited with our guest allow me to introduce him mr tahin bryan is a producer writer director and actor as well as an entrepreneur and a voice for many in this country who have felt voiceless in 2019 tahin's movie equal standard was released and it was again re-released in 2020 amid what many believed was a pivotal moment in society in regards to race and policing tahim is from the great city of new york specifically queens interesting fact if queens was its own city it'd be the fourth largest city in the country and being from queens i can only assume to him as a mets fan is that correct to be honest with you i'm not really into baseball but i love the way yankees hat looks better okay he's treading in dangerous territory and i thought we'd start off though we have a natural rivalry because i'm from chicago originally and i think we could both start off on the right foot by saying we agree that michael jordan was the greatest of all time for sure okay look at that we're off to a great start all three mikes mike tyson michael jordan and michael jackson oh i agree with all three of those as well i am really thrilled and humbled that you're on the show tahim thank you so much for being here thank you for having me so let's jump right into it i know new yorkers don't like to mess around so the show the movie uh equal equal standard i i've watched it i watched it once last night i watched it just before our podcast but before i say anything talk a little bit about your movie your your your motivation your desire uh what you hope people to get out of it well let me start up i'm writing producer i don't want to relinquish my friend on the guy brent that i also did it with him so he's also co-director the project so let me just document that as well but um i actually wrote equal standard not only just based off the systemic racing that we deal with as a nation but out of anger because i was pitching another show called southside based in 1988 and and we all know the industry lacks transparency so when i was pitching the show i had wrote the first first first season i shot a sizzle reel with method man had a different pupil talent attached to it and um they wanted to take me out of my creativity they said i can't be creative and none of that it said i wasn't i had enough skin in the game so it kind of had me angry so i took the project back and um went home and heard a song by alvin garrett called by myself i caught like the tail end of the song and the song just motivated me and all i couldn't stop writing like i never had a project take over me the way equal standard took over me it was just like designed to you know when they got to get biblical about how moses went up and then he just came down and just aged it seemed like that's how equal standard affected me it was just like right right right every time i wanted to rest for a few minutes it was forcing me to get back up to continue writing so i already knew the potential and the um the level of the magnitude of what equal standard would do to affecting the people and i emulated the formula of two great movies which is crash and traffic because those stories are movies that have interweaving stories and when you're dealing with racism or religion or politics you have you have to deal with them in several different temperatures you can't come directly hard and you have to be more objective and less subjective to get the people to want to speak out so that's what made me want to do equal standard and allow it to breathe its own life not to control it because equal standard is way bigger than me i'm only a vehicle for the actual message itself i appreciate that it's a great uh it's a great sort of origin genesis on how that came to be now okay so you see me male white blonde hair blue eyes right and i i see the movie and it's the hard part for me was it just seemed like i think you and i have the same goal in mind we want to see justice at the end of the day and we want to see that justice equally across the board irrespective of all the external externalities of the human being whatever that might be race religion creed sexual orientation all of it it felt like the white cop was the villain and and for someone like me who's trying so hard i've been in law enforcement for 18 years and and i've tried so hard to bridge the gap with my communities of color with my white communities on on the west side and it and sometimes it feels as though that narrative gets a bit it wears on people like me and i'm just wondering i don't think you were intentionally doing that but what would you say to the officers majority of officers are white because the majority of the country right 62 63 so the majority police officers are going to be white how do you bring them into the conversation without making them feel like the villain well you got to look at it like this you know me being as a minority i'm always supposed to the villain from from birth you know i mean across my chest i got convicted from the womb it seems like just the fact of my pigmentation i'm automatically the villain so me i'm only i'm i'm only just changing the narrative or just speaking as with the whispers or what's reality going on within our communities and that is with the way the police are policing our communities unjustly so it's not like i'm making him out to be the actual villain the way the way that they're actually supposed to protect and serve people of color it's not like that you know i mean we're more so being targeted so so for the officers that are not like that this doesn't apply to you but but then again it also affects you because you're not speaking out against the systemic racism and the policing that are coming into the communities that are only whether they're trying to fill a quarter or they just want to target people of color so i kind of blame a lot of the officers that are that are against it or speak against it but choose not to speak out and on the way equal standards because you know the lack of accountability can lead to a lot of different directions know and that's why one thing i'm hoping that equal standard would open up the dialogue and get the officers that are against it to want to speak out because as you see with the um the derek shoving our case the wall has starting to be penetrated when officers were starting to speak out against their own union officials or their own counterpart and and that's something that i it was interesting to me that the derrick chavin case was the catalyst for this because it was the one incident i've i've seen these now dating back from trayvon martin all the way through with all all the um the popular cases infamous cases as it were and this was the one incident that every officer i spoke to said oh this guy's going to jail like nobody said well he should have listened you know i heard that with uh with eric gardner or you know walter scott was another bad one where he's running away but there's a lot of these controversial shootings michael brown and whatnot but this one every officer said oh that cops in a lot of trouble that cops going to jail and that was the one that tipped the scales when it seemed like there was no controversy on the law enforcement side why do you think that was the one well well for one you've seen from beginning to end of a man that's of a modern day lynching actually with a man's foot and kneel on his neck for nine minutes in certain amount of seconds that's that's basically a live mention in in the public eye but don't don't get it wrong don't think that people on the legal justice system didn't try to find a way to try to manipulate that or change that because look how long it had to take for a live lynching to actually take place to be to have a conviction laid out and didn't have the people have to be so happy like wow look what we had to actually witness because if it wasn't for the young lady that kept her phone on from beginning to end then they were to try to find inconsistencies in the recording and try to say what a state topic though undertake stop so how do we know that that tape is no it's not been manipulated or has it hasn't been touched or tampered with but it's a sad situation that it had to take a live lynching on national television for people to say you know what i'm tired of it you know i mean don't get me wrong i do believe that there's always been some that wanted to speak out and i also get the fact that it's a fraternity that that on blue white so under as well as any street organization there's a fraternity that that you basically gotta appease to when you sign up to certain things but then it comes a point in time that those rules and those and those and those principles are become deviated and it becomes a deviant and also applies to a person's personal feelings about the individual and whether it's about his religion his gender of choice or the color of his skin or political desires so it's like i said it's a sad situation that it had to take this but it's a start that's how i look at it and and i appreciate your stance on it now you and i i believe want the same thing and the reason why i think we're in this cycle of well we're just going to get more training on implicit bias or we're going to talk about racism is because i think we're chasing down the wrong problem and this is what i mean by that i think there's a police culture that we need to address and if we narrow it to only race we're failing to frame the whole thing my example of this is in 2016 there's a white guy by the name of tony timpa tony tempo was his he was suffocated to death by three cops tony tim was a white guy three cops on top of him dallas fort worth they crushed him on on on camera and you it's it's about a 15-minute video the the similarities between tony tempa and george floyd leaving this earth tragically are eerily simple if you put them up the only difference is tony temple was under the knees of these officers for longer 15 minutes so to me and there's cases of these daniel shavers i have i have lists of names of white people hispanic people that were also killed by cops under under extenuating circumstances under controversial circumstances so what i'm trying to do is say look if we only focus on this this narrow this narrow segment not saying it's not important but it's narrow we need to address the bigger issue which is maybe how we're training cops overall could you see that as being a larger issue as well of of course because it also it always starts with teaching that's just what whether you're a child or an adult everything begins with the teaching so the same way racism is taught it can be eradicated through teaching so policy also plays a major part in this right and you know and being that you the the position that you hold i've always was curious is it two different you know it's under one benevolent society of of the academy i always wonder if it's in two different types of policies of training that's what i always wondered because it seems like when when officers at least on the way is being projected when officers are coming in contact with what went on on whether a right a sale or anything like that that's the least resort they go to for their weapon they also probably be more diplomatic but when it's a black person that's unarmed it's more so attacked and then ask questions and that's kind of what makes me wonder what is what is the objective is is it taught to when you go when you're going through these different ranges you know how they show these statues of whether you saw a person holding a child and which one you shoot when you don't shoot and makes me wonder is are these faces that's being placed in front of these officers people of color that that that went and they're only looked as blacks are automatically looked as criminals so shoot first and then ask questions whether yeah they're unarmed or not so to answer your question and i'll be as honest and upfront with you as i can be absolutely not the case when at least from my experience in the in my 18 years in the academy that i went through there is no you know two sides like this is how we treat this segment this is how we treat this segment and also the the tight rope that i would have to walk to cover up for an officer as well as what i need to risk so i have this you know the quote unquote thin blue line or the brotherhood to give people on the for lack of a better word the outside think about what i have to risk my freedom because i would be culpable for covering for that officer so my jail time my career obviously because i lose that my pension and any any wealth money that i'm gonna make over the course of my career any overtime or any of that stuff you have to give all of that up to cover this person and it is it just seems like that in my experience is a little bit more of a myth these cops are willing to give up everything for somebody that happens to wear the same uniform as they do despite the appearances of a thin blue line well my my thing is just what's what's more important the integrity the moral obligation of the oath that you take on when you wear that shield or that uniform um or is it the monetary gain of the finances because today is today it could be my brother tomorrow it could be your sister so what and and that's usually when most laws really change is when it hits your doorstep as opposed to it rubs and it's dragged across mine so that's that's that's where the real question should be really enforced what's really more important you know because me i'd rather be hated for who i am than love for who i'm not you know what i mean that's just that's just the reality to it so my thing is when you do take this oath you do take a hope to uphold and to protect you know i mean and not not to stereotype and target a particular race just because their personal feelings and if that's what you're dealing with then this is not this is not the oath you need to you need to take on and i believe a lot of the officers that are against that right there should have should be speaking out and of course it's going to always it has to be a a group of people that speak out because when it's just one they can really easily sacrifice you and push you to the side but that's why we have five fingers to create one fist you know what i mean so you try to bring everyone together and come in as a united force the same way when you take that oath and become under that brotherhood you move as a united force and and that's what that's where a lot of us are failing we're not moving as a united force we're still stacked back in and turning an open eye to the situation and it's making it worse it's escalating more and it's leading the people say you know what i'm not even calling the police no more i'm gonna take justice in into my own hands and we all know justice has a clear balance whether penalty or reward you know what i mean so it has to be a clear slate across the board you can't just say well if this man coming to the legal justice system with the same crime same criminal background we're going to give him 10 years because the color of his skin and then another another person comes in that has that shares the pigment of the presiding judge to prosecute the same crime no no no criminal background and give them probation that just goes to show that that the laws are imbalanced and the people that are enforcing them need to be removed from the positions that they hold now and and that part of it is is an area that i admit i'm i'm more ignorant on because i'm i'm pretty well versed in the law enforcement end i don't know the judicial system and i've heard a lot of these studies and i've heard that there are studies that not only are there disparities in sentencing but also at the pigmentation so if you're a light-colored uh african-american compared to a darker skin i've heard that there are studies that show the darker the skin the harsher the punishment and i'll be honest i just i haven't taken a bite from that apple just because it's it's a part of thing that i can't influence i can't influence the prosecutors and the defense attorneys and the judges so i feel like i can move the needle in the enforcement end of it but mr team i wanna i wanna give you some some data and this data isn't to make light of anything so if if you feel that i am challenging so i could restate it but in let's just take chicago my hometown in 2020 in chicago there was 20 officer-involved shootings by the police seven were fatal okay so they had seven were fatal six were of african-american men but outside of the police 620 people were killed so when we talk about bodies and police killing and whatnot the police and i have these stats for new york la philly houston it is always a fraction of the overall murders of black men in the country and i'm just wondering when i talk to my cops and i say we have to stop killing people most of my cops don't even shoot their gun let alone kill somebody it is just it's historically speaking most cops will go 30 years in this country never shoot their gun let alone kill someone so killing of of any race is a very rare event how do we

like in the movie it feels like everybody thinks this is happening constantly but even in the movie it was like two instances that that was sort of the premise behind the whole movie and and i i if i could scale it down to say look we're not hunting people with the purpose of killing them i think i could get more buy-in on my side but i want your take on that but you know that's that's an individualism statement right there what you're not hunting let's let me go back into the statistics like you just also spoke on uh under the mapping police violence collected data over 1100 killings of our police in the year 2020 now now of course now we also do know that there's a lot of black on black crime but if you go through the statistics on white on white crime it's a lot it's the statistics is a lot greater than black on black crime but this thing is it's not being it's not being publicized the way is the way the minorities and the black communities is being scrutinized upon so the cameras are also recording the data and the censorship within the black communities but it's not being recorded or or whether it's being recorded but it's not being presented in front of the people on the killings on white on right crime let's so let's let's let's go with that now on the other question that you was asking me about because my mind kind of shifted with you know the statistics you you we spoke about statistics now the back the question that you just asked me again pertaining to the movie and all that can you bring that back to me absolutely it it makes it feel like that police in general are just hunting with the purpose to kill black men you know and and when i tell you in los angeles there was 1.8 million police encounters six black men were shot and and out of those six none of them were unarmed they were all engaged in violent encounters that's that's a that is a sliver of the criminal element that our officers were engaged in and it just you know so there and i know there's some cities that are different you know there's there are smaller towns and i understand that but these big cities were we're all wearing body worn cameras and the tv cameras are on in the car it to think that we're just shooting black men willy-nilly it's just not happening at least at least that that what i can see well you you like i said that's that's an individualism statement right there because everyone has a different agenda and l.a has had they have the highest crime rate right now whether with police and stuff like that now some some some men may have been armed but that don't mean they went for that weapon they may have found that they had a weapon on them down the line after they don't shot shot the purple while he was running or whatever the case is but some people do come out with the intention of i'm looking to remove a genocide or to attack don't get me wrong there are a lot that may not but we we cannot turn a blind eye and be ignorant to the fact that that there are some that carry out a brotherhood and has a different objective a different mission outside of the shield of the protecting them with the qualified immunity to say listen i'm gonna fire first so that like i said that's an individual statement it's not a global one because everyone has different agendas when they choose to take that oath and put on that blue uniform whether they're going to protect and serve or who they want to protect and serve and who they want to target that's just that's just the way the narrative is not only with the police with the legal justice system with redlining um it's just it's it's it's just a clear slate on how minorities are placed it's almost like basically it's like black against everything it's and it's black against each other because we have our own crisis that we're dealing with each other as well and i'm a firm believer say that we also need to address our own issues as well but the issue at hand is the way the unions are targeting us even with babies how you jump out first with the objective let me fire upon them and then ask what is the questions of what were you doing which i feel is unfair because i've watched through numerous cases on television and on whether through body cam of of um of a white person that's that's being accused of a crime and they're fighting the police some even trying to stab them through the vest and they still don't go through their firearm where an unarmed person could just get into an irate argument and just want to know why are you stopping me and it can lead to a total death but let me ask you something let me ask you between that you've been that you're dealing with the training aspect of it and um you basically tapping into the mindsets of them why they're coming in at a young age so anytime anytime you create change it's almost indoctrinating with constant pressure yo this is the enemy this is this is the one you target this is to shoot center mass yo the whole objective is get home to your family wake up in the morning kiss wait to sing up thank god that you woke up kiss your kids say i'm getting home in my family the best way i can by by any means i'm gonna get there so with the training aspect let's just say i was an officer come on i was on one that wanted to become an officer how would that training take place and um how would how do you vet out the ones that are not really there to protect and serve that are only there to protect their their private entity of a brotherhood that may be some form of white supremacy how can you vet that or do you even look to vet that out as well as are you are you looking for somebody that may have been bullied as young children and looking at looking to prove a point or or have they ever engaged with people of color before they decide to want that uniform like if you could explain to me a little on that on the training and the things that you vet out and and the things that you target the most before you clear these individuals to become uh um nypd or lapd or whatever the case is absolutely sir it's a great question and remind me if i forget the whole idea of this get home at all costs i i rail against this and i'll tell you why but let me answer your question i could only speak to the academies that i know and the ones that i have a professional relationship across the country and most of the big ones it's going to be new york chicago la houston and philly those are the big five they are all very similar in how they run their academies and how they do their vetting so you have to apply to be an officer some of them need a college requirement some don't but there's some kind of an education requirement be it high school or or college and then you take a battery of tests so you do your aptitude test your writing test and you take a psychology written test and then you do a psychology interview and those things are recorded some agencies do a lie detector test i know for my agency i had to sit for a lie detector test and all of them do thorough background investigations so that's a background investigator who will show up to your neighbors houses who will show up to your old employers who will ask questions and basically do what's called a background investigation and try to get as much information try to find any inconsistencies in your story that you put forward because you are going to be entrusted as a government agent to potentially enforce laws and take a life doing so so i agree with you the vetting process needs to be stringent extreme and they need to go through everything in your life because they're going to give you a gun and some degree of immunity to take a life in the enforcement of laws if you're following the rules so that is there just to get in the door then you got to go through the academy and during the academy you're doing scenarios testing um you're having conversations with behavioral social scientists that come in and watch you do your your role play scenarios and ideally you try to find people who might be overly aggressive or who the wording would be they just don't get it like you can't come in here to do those kinds of things we do scenarios where you put head gear on and you have to hit people and we'll throw in officers to give excessive force and we expect the recruits to grab them and pull them off so we put them in these moral conundrums to see if they react to see if they hesitate or do they react right away know the difference between right and wrong and then you got to go through a year of probation which means now you're out of the academy and you're sitting next to an officer in the car and it is ideally the case that that officer is training you the policies the way to do it the right way and you know in some of these organizations especially we're going to say more progressive organizations new york chicago philly boston you have a pretty good representation of the police force and the community they serve so i know in los angeles for example the majority of cops on los angeles are male hispanics that's that's the majority i think white officers make up 27 of the department and they're like 29 of the society black males in los angeles are ten percent of the department but nine percent of society so we've specifically tried to and i say we the the police law enforcement tries to mirror the communities they serve chicago is a little different they don't have as robust of a what's the word when you're trying to get people to apply sort of like uh like an advocate so yeah yeah they don't have like a real robust recruiting you know in in the inner city and there's a lot of conflict and history with chicago and the inner city not a lot of people of color want to be police officers because they think it's just this you know white supremacist confederate flags in the locker rooms and they don't want to be a part of that or their friends and family maybe you have someone of color who says hey i want to make a difference much like the main character and his wife you know these are what these are people who want to be part of the organization and maybe their friends would say why do you want to do that you're you're an uncle tom or you're a traitor you a lot of my friends who are officers of color get that from the society from their community they hear these things and it hurts them so they say you know what i don't even be a part of this program but we try vigorously to root those things out if you look at the majority of my goodness the police chiefs the the staff the people in charge people of color across the board there's plenty of police chiefs of color across the board that are leading these organizations i think in one of your your statements in the movie it said leadership starts at the top and and goes down leadership starts at the top um and and that's where you have to so a lot of our leadership are people of color so we've when i say we again i'm talking to law enforcement in general so they they've made a concerted effort because what i want to make clear for you is you know my guest i know there's a history that comes with this job there there are times when law enforcement was on the wrong side of that history but for my experiences we've tried diligently to make up ground i just worked not too long ago in the inner city down in south central and uh man i'm driving around south central waving stopping talking to people on their porch people inviting me back for the ufc fight that night like we've made incredible strides in general and what i think happens mr team is that these lightning lightning strike instances these these killings these unjustified killings things like uh uh george floyd and and you know uh walter scott the list the list racial there he goes to lisbon

it does sir those numbers every one of those is important but it's just it's those it's not happening every day and that's why they're so impactful is because they're not happening every day and so it feels like when you see this it's like when a cop dies you know and all the lights come up and all the people line the freeways and it's a big deal and the you know the big show it's because it doesn't happen a lot and so it's it and but the impact is monumental right the loss of a young child to a community at the hands of the government which is the police is incredibly impactful as it should be the government shouldn't be taking lives and so i understand the pain but at the same time it's so hard for me to tell cops you know to to to stop killing us that i heard this when i was on the line all summer people calling me racist and saying stop killing us to me and hundreds of cops and everybody around us we've never even shot our gun i i was in an ois young in my crew but in general you know most officers don't shoot their gun and so we want to root out the bad ones absolutely there's an old saying that is and i want to get your feedback the old saying is nobody hates a dirty cop more than a good cop and i believe that i've experienced that as well but please give me your response yeah well you well what's what a little bit makes me see that that is your responses it may be a little too subtle when you say it it's not as prevalent or not as frequent as white cops killing unarmed black people because it is extremely prelim if we didn't have cell phones and cameras we wouldn't see that so before there was cell phones and cameras trust this there is a lot more that's not being documented a lot of these a lot of these incidents that are occurring now were cases that may have been six months old eight months old and now the tape just got a chance to be released and um everyone is still trying to lie on the backs of the george floyd like like minorities should be just so happy that justice was served but look what we had to go through look what we had to witness to get to get a conviction and uh which which is a sad situation to show how a legal justice system where you still got to take an officer through two three weeks of trial when evidence is clearly blatantly directly in your face of showing what took place and it was and it wasn't a protection sir how officer just actually killed the unarmed man that was crying for help and his other officers were standing around not doing anything so when you say that um all the old saying about all all good cops don't like bad cops right bad cops if but if they hated them that much why are they speaking out and like how you said earlier you're afraid to lose your pension you're afraid to lose your job you you're afraid to be vetted out as like oh you're a traitor so it just shows there is no moral obligation there is no real integrity but the paycheck now if everyone chose to say listen i'm only only out for the money the world would be a lot worse than what it is these movements that's been going on in the world would just take the money and fall back but there's a lot of integrity that lasts a lot longer than a dollar a dollar you can spend and it's gone your integrity is is something that's rooted in you that you don't just leave like that but let me also go into the fact of on when we spoke about leadership roles when you say how y'all have people of color and leadership roles in a household a mother and father leadership but the siblings are closer there's a different bond so you can have leadership that doesn't mean the brotherhood is going to look at that leadership and follow his direction so you can so there's many people that are the ceos of companies but don't have the power to fire you they just have the title so putting a black face inside the front of a camera which sometimes a lot of these black these black officials that are leaders are really not in support of the people that they're really they're really just skin folk what we would call them as opposed the ones that really speak against the the um the injustice that's going on inside the black communities a lot of them are just there just to be a face and and and rooting on in the background like well listen they shouldn't have been doing this anyway like listen at the end of the day killing a man is killing it man however there is no full justification because if it was a full justification the tables can turn you know what i mean so just like you see what's going on in the world with gaza and the palestine you know it's just it's just the world is is in a real delicate place of hatred right now and to happen and to be on the podcast and to make it seem as it's it's subtle because it's not it's not being broadcasted on television every day every day i do believe that it is happening every day it's just not being documented i don't think it's just only we just happened sporadic i don't i don't believe that i believe it's more that it just hasn't been put to the forefront yet because it will come because the same tool as they give us to help us is the same tools that we're using it to hurt to to place the blame and hold accountability for the officers that are being illegal and on treating people unjustly because if we didn't have these pdfs and you know it would be hearsay because before there was cameron people say well if you had footage to show what took place before so then when you show footage then it goes into another mindset well what happened before the camera turned on like like it's like everyone tries to find a way to show the office is justifiable way because he took an oath or she took a oath you know what i mean but it's still it don't matter no matter the oath that you took you violate that oh if you if you chose to be afraid to be to come in contact with people of color or people that don't look like you you know i mean it should be a more de-escalating policy that's put in place when you're confronted don't just hide behind your weapon the same way with um dante wright that was just killed in the police vehicle and the female officer yelled out taser taser who'd been on the force 26 years like we all know let's be real like come on you got two male officers that that are already there to neutralize this situation and it's a traffic stop at a climate a pandemic where everything is on backlog and you're holding a gun in your right hand knowing that chasers are usually put on the left side or or the side that that's where it's i forgot the word you're like non-dominant is correct the non-dominant side and you're holding it with a right hand and for a few seconds you'll keep saying i'm gonna taser i'm gonna tease you you can tell the difference of a hand grip and the weight and the color if you if it's a weapon if it's not so i believe a lot of this is psychological that's really being placed into the forefront and um and an illegal justice system it always takes us just to stir up doubt just for her saying taser that's enough just to to create doubt within the jury's mind well she did say taser that's like me saying that's like me saying you pulled me over and i said you're a stick-up kid and i blow your head off i could i could sit there and say listen i thought he was a sticker kid and then the jury said well did he say you was a stick-up kid yes so then how we how can you say that i didn't really believe you was a stick-up kid so a lot of that is is just method and psychological that they choose to use as a method to um to shield what their intentions was really about but go on no and i i appreciate your take on this do me a favor sir you i think you said a term it was skin folk just so skin folk what is that skin folk meaning you just look like me but you're not you're not in support of the things that i that i'm dealing with you're not on the front line with my plight or my arguments you're you're just there because you you share the same pigment so you're just a skin folk to me i get you good night

a white officer that shares the same pigment but don't share the same policy right i get it that makes sense i i i know it's hard for us to do this in a short amount of time what i feel what i'm trying to get with you is a place where again i think we both want the same thing we both want accountability we both want to see less violence i think we're looking at it from different lenses not right nor wrong i look at it from the lens of mistakes happen uh bad actions happen and and there's a lot of cognitive impairment that takes place when people are under stress and there's also implicit bias and there's historical rate i think all that coalesces together to like a sausage mill and makes a bad decision and i'm i'm truly hoping that from your perspective it's not just you know someone who looks like me who's nefariously gotten into the government just for the sole purpose of killing a black man because oh no i don't i don't look at it like that i just i would just basically add it all when you're saying when you globalize the way your statement was because it's the verbiage that you were using it was almost like you was generalizing by saying we don't take this job with the notion and you can't you can't generalize that statement that's like me saying all blacks are not criminals you know what i mean or or all whites are not into white-collar crime you know what i mean that's so you can't so when you're dealing with the verbiage it's a real delicate space they can change the direction on the meaning on what you're trying to convey so that's what i'm saying of course we all want to be treated fairly you know i mean we all want to we we want to relinquish racism if you can't if you can't relinquish it at least be respectful to the counterpart we we all know we're not asking you to love love the person next year but at least respect his his pigment his walk of life and the things that he's engaged in because not everybody's walk of life is the same some people come up under a survival mentality and and doesn't look at life in a moral obligated way as opposed to people that had the silver spoon or had the privilege you know what i mean sure so so the ones that had the privilege would not see things in a survival instinct mindset because they never had they never had to be forced to try to find a way to survive and eat and to put a roof over this over there on their head or put food inside their children's stomach those are the things that a lot of other people had no choice but to do and when you when you're a survivalist morality the morality you're so far out of touch when it comes to that because you're just trying to find a way i'm gonna put the next meal on my table i'm gonna keep the lights on in my home as opposed to you going home to a family that has your mother and father in a nice home and the electricity stays on the refrigerator is full so you're living so it's two different minds say that's that's that's that's like a domesticated lying to to one that's that's living in the jungle yep and absolutely and i think mr team this is where i do bring a an interesting unique perspective you know male white again blind blue-eyed for people that don't see but i grew up in south side of chicago mom on welfare 17 years old don't know my dad he died years ago government cheese back in the 70s so i know poverty and i also saw the cops treated us and they they were not good to us you know i was not somebody as this little white kid running around thinking oh hear the police let me wave hi they were crappy to us they were crappy to my mom because we were poor so we didn't we were we were in a crime area and cops man i hated cops growing up it wasn't like i just felt comfortable around them or i would waver they'd wave at me like the suburbs so i know that when i'm in the inner city i feel at home in the inner city because that's that's my roots so i know when i speak to people in the inner city irrespective of color i need them to be comfortable with me i don't want them to have the experience that i had which is oh you're poor you're probably up to no good you're probably going to be a criminal i don't want to make that equation and so i i and there's people like me when you talk to a lot of cops and get to know a lot of us you'll see a lot of us come from these humble upbringings that really want to make a difference in in the places we've come go ahead sir and that's fine a humble upbringing you you're still up under the same regimen of the the teachings that you're taught so when you now i don't doubt that you may have went through your issues with the police and had your run-ins or brushes like that however when you use that as as um as leverage to wear a minority it again not to take away from the things that you went through it almost dilutes what people of color going through that's like that's that's like if i that's like people when when who's speaking about race and i'm speaking to a person that's not of color and they say well i have a lot of black friends oh i dated a black girl like we not that's not we we so far out of touch when we're dealing with things like that i don't doubt that that those people may have dated blacks or things or how they run ins however it dilutes the blunt end of we're going because it looks like this with us it's constant it's constant and um and i tried i tried to show it throughout the film in a clear balanced way see i'm i'm not angry on the way things are because i believe change was going to come so i'm not an angry writer you know what i mean i'm just i'm just i'm just a writer that's that's trying to share the whispers that are not being taught in the hollywood format you know i'm using my voice and to change the narrative and show it in a clip in a clear spectrum as opposed to just saying let's just go out there and shoot police let's just go out there and create a race riot you know what i mean nope nobody wants that you know i mean that nobody wants bloodshed nobody's looking for things of that nature however but you know if we don't have the um accountability you can never tell which way the direction will come thomas jefferson once said went on oh let me try to see the exact statement tommy jefferson said when illegal when a legal justice system when duty wouldn't i can't i can't even remember the way he said he cut my mind it'll come back to me with the way the statement the way thomas just the way thomas jefferson was saying on dealing with unjustly in in america and um where it comes a point in time that duty duty becomes a chance where you have to respond back in the same manner that's what's really being enforced you know i mean so it's a death we're dealing with a um extremely delicate situation right now and it has to be treated delicately no one wants to hear someone say well i went through that too and it's like well listen i don't doubt everyone may have went through it but there's different levels there's different classes oh so where a person goes through it like you may have went through it and on a scale of one to ten maybe a three i'm constantly at a ten you know what i mean where it's like wow you know i mean if and again if we didn't have these pdfs you wouldn't have got a chance to see so much more you know and i can only imagine some of the teachers in school where where some of the history may have been um changed around or different things but one thing that we do need to tap into is accountability you know i mean it has to be a clear slate we do need to try to change the way some of these policies are within the police department and stop protecting the ones that are enforcing injustice and making the union officials look bad and even some of these union reps i do believe need to be on removed from their positions as well you know what i mean because get in front of the media and say listen i'm on support of the people too but then once they come off camera they sit and say look listen continue what you doing you know what i mean you know we'll find a way to all to fix it you know so but so let me again no please go ahead finish your thought no but i i wanted to bring up to you what you would mention about to get getting home about what yeah thank you and and if i could just give me if i could just clarify when i say those things i what i try to do is identify it's kind of like when the young kid in the field and they don't have a dad and they act up and i share with them look i didn't have a dad either but but you still got to be good for mom and you got to be even more you know so it's my way of just helping people know that they're not alone out there you know like and even though maybe his dad was worse you know whatever it is i'm not trying to compare but i want people to know i i have empathy you know that's that's my goal behind it but so i'm going to tell you about that and then please i want to ask you because i want you to share some of your experience with the law enforcement but i have always been against this idea of going home to family i've heard this before and i've heard it for years all cops want to do is get home to their family or some version of that that's a problem for me because if all you want to do is go home well go drive for amazon or go be an accountant or do any of the number of jobs that will increase the likelihood of you getting home at night because policing is supposed to be noble i'm supposed to be the one running towards the twin towers so that other people can get home like i don't like this idea of cops saying this because it diminishes what we as a society expects of them you know you're from new york these cops walk around people say they're go new york's finest right you get that title just by walking down the street they'll say new york's finest and i always say earn that title never say that never say all i want to do is go home instead if somebody asked me that i would say all i want to do is make sure my community get home at night because that's the nobility you have to carry with you but i just want to touch that but sir i would like for you to share your experiences i i have to assume you've had some pretty negative experiences with with cops of course of course but now also let me go back it came back to my chain of thought with what tommy jeffrey said he said when injustice becomes law resistance becomes duty that's that's what thomas jefferson once said but of course i've had my brush up against the the legal justice system i gave the system 12 years i got this state in federal time so i have had i had blunt on with it you know i mean due to the choices that i made and um i would i wouldn't want to turn my time my hands back at all because it taught me so much i've learned from my lessons and it shaped me to the person that i am today to be able to um to be clear and impartial i like to be fair and that's one thing i've always loved to be with fear even when i was a part of a previous life i never wanted to rule with an iron fist i tried to rule with fairness you know i mean the things that i would enforce is the things that i would be on the front line doing myself and that's what i feel um a lot of these other union officials a lot of other people are not doing this they're setting out these missions and these goals like yo get out there and you do this and they not standing on the front line doing that for themselves you know i mean you know so but yeah like i said like i said earlier of course i i've had my share with the legal justice system you know of course you know i made my decisions to to to tap into that the lifestyle i chose and um you're using that like i said you're using powerful language you're saying the lifestyle i chose the decisions i made do you feel as though the system was unfair to you or do you feel as though the system worked for lack of a better word and and now you've you've grown from that how do you you know how do you make sense of that well one thing i never like to use on my complexion or my things i've been through as a handicap you know what i mean because i've still made my decision do i think that um i was afforded some of the same opportunities of course there was opportunities there but living living arrangements and conditions can can alter that to where it changes your mobility your direction to where you could deviate where it could be where you you may started out with a mother father home and then might have been raised by a single parent home because one was abusive so you're forced under certain situations that can force you to become a deviant from the natural way of life of one one step at a time and you and using the latter so i chose a different route which which may not have been the best route later but at that particular time that was the better route to choose you know because again when you have to keep lights on and you want to keep food on the table and you're seeing your family suffering no one wants to see the counters the counterstone of their household going through abuse or suffering and can't provide equally to the to the other siblings so you make a decision you know what i mean and on the streets always have all the answers that you may have that you may need or lacking from the questions and and on and they're very intriguing you know what i mean because there's so much different things that could be glorifying to the eyes that you may not see that may not be sound for the stomach you know what i mean but you still choose to latch on to like yo listen i like nice clothes i i i like to be i like to have the same respect of this of the next person in the street i don't want to be looked as a bum or my family it doesn't have anything you know what i mean so sure circumstances circumstances can can force you to deviate yes from using the latter like i i started i tried to stay in school while choosing my lifestyle but i had to make a clear balance i said you know something i have to sacrifice something i can't keep both and i wind up sacrificing the lateral way of life to to just become more hands-on and focus on the lifestyle that i was indulging in at that particular time and it cost me half my life and am i bitter behind that no because i learned so much from it i've grown so much in life but some people choose to use their color or their religion or their political beliefs as a crutch you know what i mean or a handicap i choose not to you know i mean i'm not going to hide behind my pigment i know who i am as an individual i know i'm one of god's children that's greater than what any other person's opinion has out there into society any teachers a person has about me i'm not who you think i am just as you just as you come on you think i'm 100 one person when you find out to be 100 wrong on who i am you know i mean so i try to be a clear representation of the trials and tribulations that i went through and let the people that come from my walk of life from before use me as a staple to show that it's possible change changes is inevitable with me but when you come from the the situations that i came from you'd be afraid of change but you think change is going to kill you but it takes you not changing i can kill you which will force you to change and that's what led me to creating change in my life and being a voice and using my talent and my creativity to tap into the mindset of the people that you don't get a chance to hear from and change the narrative on how black writers or filmmakers are scrutinized upon we're looked as glorified writers as opposed to white america asians they're looked as entertainment writers because we're so subjective to everyone else so they'll feel like if they're so subjective to everyone else we they got to be subjective on each other because we're very hard on each other my people you know i mean we're extremely hard we make one error then we're frowned upon forever you know what i mean and that's that's one thing we have to learn from and on but you know mirror image that's the one thing i live by mirror image is a reflection of the action that we set in motion today so i look in that mirror and in order for me to make change with anyone else i have to change that person that looks in that mirror and in the best way is change the narrative you know what i mean and on use use it as their own as a weapon and not weaponize it i i i love what you just said i'm going to play that back when i listen to this again but especially change the narrative and and if i could pause there that's where i'd like to land with you on something i want to change the narrative and and say while policing can get better and while it does have a history it's moving in the right direction and and if i could get that with you then then we we can keep building you know these these bricks lay one brick at a time and we're gonna have the great wall of china eventually and so if i can change the narrative that bad things happen and it's getting better and you have cops like me who who really want to make a difference who who aren't doing it for for the color of skin or any of that they're doing it for the nobility of the profession to help people who need help and if i could have a voice like yours who's so influential and can reach millions of people we can start here's what i don't want i don't want a young black man to get pulled over by a police officer and only think they got pulled over because of a race and then for that to escalate i don't want my cop to think that this guy's going to kill him i don't want him to think that his cop's going to kill him and then these two worlds collide and now both of them shouldn't be worried about that because the kid in the car doesn't want to kill the cop the cop doesn't want to kill the young the young man but they think that the each one wants to hurt each other that's what i want to change well and that's going to take time because when when every incident that you see is played out it's always the narrative of like yo roll your window down get out the car don't reach right shot goes off you know what i mean and then so of course you you do be afraid this this times now i could get pulled over and no i'm not i'm i don't have anything illegal but the mind automatically wants it like do i got anything illegal on me that that any sharp thing it's just a sad situation to have to live in fear and wonder if your life is at stake every time you walk out that front door and every time that siren goes on while you're in that front seat you try to roll all your windows down you try to keep your hands on on the on the stand well but you're still being confronted with aggression you know what i mean or fabricated lies like yo i saw you making a legal term and it's like no you couldn't absolutely make them leave you you must got the wrong individual right and and it always starts with probable cause you know yeah and as long as you can start it out the probable cause was because i saw you make an illegal stop and then that could that's usually what leads to an incident to a lawful arrest you know i mean and all a lot of times there really was no probable cause it was just based on the office's mindset i'm going to profile this individual and say i saw them making a legal turn and who who are you to deny him from saying that because he is the legal justice of he's the one to uphold the law you know what i mean so why would i confront someone that's here to uphold the law when they forget the people that are upholding the law they're human they're not robots you know what i mean so they have their issues you know i mean they come in with bad days to say yo i'm going after anyone with blue vehicles i'm going after anyone with red vehicles you know what i mean it's just it's individualism goes a long way you know what i mean and then to use the shield as a as a crutch to try to say as if well why would the officers want to do that that's the question that we asked why would you want to come at us like that with just because we playing our music too loud because we're in a in a fancy vehicle because we're smiling under we still find ways to smile under distress that was still being forced on every single day it seems like that makes that makes the opera that makes the opposing team or the oppressors even more better to say yo how are these people still able to live in humor and still find ways to be successful when we just killed someone in their neighborhood how are they still able to smile because that's all we know is trauma that's all we've experienced was trauma so any any other trauma it's like we've been living under trauma since birth so of course we're going to find ways to find humor around everything you know i mean we've been lived under trauma for so many years that dark humor is is what's humorous to us as opposed to someone else look at olaf where people say don't laugh at that which will be funny to us yes absolutely i understand exactly exactly what you're saying i want to i would like to share with you my my opinion and i want to just maybe give you a peek behind the curtain this is where i think there's an issue police officers are often judged by how productive they are and productivity is only done in the form of arrests citations summonses that's a good cop a cop that makes an arrest a kid is a bad guy and i've always said if you judged firefighters by how many fires they put out and that's a good firefighter we'd have a lot more fires burning but you don't judge a firefighter by that and i'd like to change i i believe this if we took that as our scale of good cop took that away and said listen making arrests is just one thing you do but it's not the totality of your existence within society then i think cops would stop making these pretext stops i think they would stop trying to stop everybody because they're they're searching they're just searching for something maybe you got a gun maybe you got a warrant maybe you got a little dope in the car i need something to be productive so my boss my sergeant my commanders you know they they see that i'm out there working and i i really think that's an issue because if you put that pressure on them to produce but you know what mr if i'm in your neighborhood and i'm working and i don't stop anybody all night long in queens a little area you know i'm circling around but there's no robberies there's no burglars there's no vandalism well that's productivity the absence of crime should be somehow captured but it isn't and i think that's a fundamental problem with this profession yeah and i agree with that it shows once the police became a business then everything relied on numbers and of course i we would say a good cop is one that didn't have to draw his weapon right just like in the just like in a black community we would call a good kid as one that never used drugs he's a good kid he's never been arrested or he never used drugs you know what i mean so of course everything is based on productivity if crime rate is down that means the police should be rewarded like you listen there hasn't been no crime in our area in six months to a year everyone should be rewarded about that because they was able to keep things at a neutralized base but that also comes in the policing that are police in that community you know i mean with the offices that we get that come within our community they're not from our community so a lot of them come in some of them come in with a fear mentality because they never been confronted with someone of color you know what i mean so they be fearful so and then they're taught yo don't let them get too close draw your weapon and shoot you know what i mean then that enhances the fear you know what i mean but but again if if you remove or change the policy from from within you can change the way the officers are engaging outside within the field as well as holding the bad ones accountable for their actions because if it's like in anything you only got to be right once you only got to be wrong once to be able to be held to counter but if you do something right you're going to be held accountable for doing something right if you do something wrong you're going to be held accountable where it's it's not it's no it's a lack of accountability it's like there's so many there's so many laws that are there to protect them from the different things before they could even get close to the world of accountability where it's like you don't worry about you and officials are there don't say nothing we'll put you on death suit we'll put you on death duty for a little while uh maybe do some community services and um we'll go to court the union reps will come in or you retire you know what i mean and then the officers feel like all right look i got away with it so that makes the next set up the next set of trainees that come into the game well look but wow we we got caught blanche we could do what we want you know what i mean so i'm coming up in there the first the first person i see get out of line i'm gonna shoot first then ask questions later you know what i mean and and it's not all of them but the ones that are there need to be vetted out and rooted out but some of them are so they feel that they that they let down their fraternity it's like against in college you have an oath once you and you usually try to die by that old like listen this is the oath that we live and we die by you know what i mean but it comes a point in time that that oath has become detrimental to the key values sure of what what the oath was actually implemented and put in place and then and then it frowns upon the whole union right completely and when it when it affects the whole union then it's a problem you know what i mean so sometimes you you just got to say listen we got to get you out of here you you you you creating too much problems within our infrastructure yeah and you making us all look bad because it's it's like dominoes they're all gonna fall right all of them you know but everyone's afraid to speak out because if you speak out we're gonna snatch your pension or you're gonna be frowned upon or you're gonna get numerous threats on the phone yo we're gonna kill you if we see you you got to go through that type of trauma to speak out and then you got your own peer pressure of the people that look like you saying oh you played yourself how could you even take that test how could you even do that like you know so the teachings the teachings has been so distorted and the messages has been been conveyed so wrongly now that a lot of it has to be all dismantled and rebuilt that's that's how i feel a lot of it needs to be dismantled and rebuilt the same way how some people say yo uh we need police reform defund the police so i don't think taking money you know what i mean because they say defund them we're not saying remove and finance it we're saying allocate it to better training instead of sending police to a person that's suffering from mental illness sure send someone from mental illness the same way if they say yo if you call 3-1-1 they say if this is an emergency down 9-1-1 you know what i mean this should be this should be separate unions where that money is allocated instead of just push behind police for making mistakes with because when you have that type of money behind you you know there's problems within a system yeah this is the reality to it if you have you have a billion dollars just waiting there for you to where we have the high top lawyers we have the best officials we'll just say that yo you was going through a bad day or he drab he grabbed your weapon or hopefully he had any form of a risk even if it was a arrest for marijuana he had an arrest you know i mean one arrest is an arrest that's enough to stand on the guy as a criminal just because he's been running through the system but you don't see or you don't hear the guy was acquitted from a crime that that that was fabricated it was never a crime that he really committed and that's why he was vindicated but the arrests alone he's been arrested so they show a mug shot picture but then they but so it's it's the way it's the way the media is projecting the images of whether the perpetrators or the ones that we will call police officers that are really the ones that may be bad during the situation because communication is everything it's not always de-escalated situation by carrying your gun or using your taser or things of that nature now we all know there are sometimes where it may be warranted you know what i mean you have to use your firearm or you have to use your taser but but you know i'm a firm believer i'm i'm in support of firearms because i don't believe firearms are the problem i believe it's the conscious mind behind the firearm where the problem lies you know what i mean so and until we attack the mindset of the people that are hiding behind these weapons and see what other what other lifestyles that they're living outside of that union because most of mostly a lot of us live a double life you know i mean some that you see in front of the camera and some that you see when that you don't see it when the camera's off you know what i mean and yeah those are the things that we need to be more so mindful and address of these mental evaluations with a lot of us suffering from because it don't just happen they just cut like you said that we don't just come in with the notion but sometimes the mindset and the pressure a lot of them hasn't been faced under the type of trauma that uh that most most minorities lived in like i said we come from trauma so we adapt to a trauma when we see something that's not traumatic or or something like that that's when our antennas go when we start seeing good things you're like wondering like yo why is this person being so good to me you know i mean that's that and that's a sad situation when you gotta wonder when someone's trying to extend the olive branch to you that you wonder there's an agenda behind that as opposed to if it was if it was just trauma being faced with you by eye i expect that you know what i mean but no one likes no one likes to hit a secret of racist no one likes a sneak thief if you're gonna if you're gonna take it take it from me don't sneak it from me right if you don't like me say you don't like me so i know how to deal with you i'm not gonna hate you i just know how to deal with you you know what i mean and a lot of a lot of this is hidden that's a that's a it's a new york uh frame of mind right just be up front with me and if you want to be an ass be an ass but you know be upfront exactly that's we don't like about la people is that they're real fake in front of you same with chicago you want to be an ass be an s but let's just get it open and let's just get it over exactly yeah exactly i hear you now how do how do someone how does how does someone like you and i how do we use our passion for this despite the reasons we're coming at it from different reasons i don't think that you know i'm surrounded by a bunch of you know people who are who are trying to subvert or keep you know a class of people down i feel like i'm surrounded by a lot of good people some of which make errors and mistakes and you have a point of view which is i respect completely but how do you and i get past that to get to a point where we can work together and say look irrespective of why we think this let's let's put that aside because now we're at a point where we can work together what can people like you and i do be be less subjective be be open-minded be objective you know what i mean get into the questions on why why do you hate why is that hatred building up so much what is it that you experienced what did you go through that's making you hate what is which have you been taught communication just keeping it going like this this this is the this is the key to tapping and chipping at a wall is to keep hitting it just keep hitting it keep hitting it and getting people to want to speak out and that's what that and that's why the way equal standard was designed is designed to where you want to speak because the trailer when you see the trailer it snatches you after you see the film it becomes a part of you and then you want to watch it again like wow did i miss something like who wrote this like how could he how did he know the perspective and the dynamics of a police officer unless he's a police or unless he's an officer he comes from a officer background or is he a gang affiliate or how can he speak to gang members unless he's he's a flag holder you know what i mean or how can he speak of an irish family unless he's has iris blooded them or engaged with irish people you know what i mean so but and the reason how you do that because new york city is a melting pot of all ethnicities all backgrounds so you come in contact with everyone so as you come in contact you learn them you're living in buildings with different ethnicities and background and you're seeing the things that are humorous to them and you're seeing the things that are not one thing we all clearly understand whether we speak multiple languages or not we clearly understand on violence we all understand ass whooping you know what i mean or disrespect everyone that's a universal language you know i mean you can say it in many different languages you want but it all means the same clearly um being biased or being disrespectful or being disrespected or or having justice or being treated unjust those those are universal languages that we all can understand and that's why equal standard was designed to be treated fairly it showed you the pros and cons like if accountability becomes a moral obligation this is what you'll get if it doesn't that pressure is going to bust and the justice is going to be taking it to their own hand and um it also shows um i also speak in in the way police officers when he spoke to chris jones when he tells him never let the sickness or of another man's mind be a crush when you deviate from the moral obligation yeah to the to the moral that that wish that we hold i don't i don't make the rules i just enforce them so i'm not naive i'm not naive to the oaths that we all share because whether i'm a cop or i come from the street we still adjust and attack into a oath to protect what we represent you know what i mean whether whether it's on your whether it's your side of the aisle or it's on my side of the aisle and this way i presented it and the way i presented in there when he go when he goes to speak to me and crawf about retrieving that radio back when he said listen the same way y'all put that truth together you know what i mean um whether y'all liked it or not it's either you give the radio back or they're going to come and if they come only two things are going to happen that's injustice and injustice you know i mean so i show both sides to the spectrum of um where you can see where accountability or not accountability with family because in my movie family is another union thing that you see as well as then with chris jones and jackie i made them officers and high ranking officers because the first thing that usually comes out of an officer's mouth they don't like cops anyway so i made them cops so now you can't say they don't like cops because they are cops and they're high ranking officials i i did i like that and and i wrote down so much of this the the little girl who was adorable asks her parents um do white cops not like black people hate black people right hate black people and the mom i thought they did a really nice job navigating that and the mom was like you know sometimes people are scared and i couldn't tell if they were just saying that to her to not scare her but in their mind they were thinking eh the majority of them do hate us or so let me ask you do you do you feel like the majority of white cops just don't like black people or is it the most i'm not gonna glad sir i'm not gonna say um if we look at the way to pressurize it will be looked as majority but if we if we minimize it i'm not gonna say majority of them do not like blacks but do i feel there is a different stigmatism with blacks yes i do believe all officers have a certain stigmatism with blacks because we're highly central we're highly monitored where there's a lot of black on black crime so of course you're going to look at us a lot different especially if it's being if it's being subjected and and highly censored to to more of a people to the public eye as opposed to other ethnicities that are involved with crime but but the reason why she had she had to speak in that temperature because for one that's like that's like your child coming to you and and saying like well um does black cops hate white children you know what i mean like how how how do you navigate that because whatever you tell that child is going to change the direction of the way that child thinks from the rest of her life so you have to be very careful on how you teach that child because their minds are like sponges and they solely rely on everything that we say and what we do so when she acts that that's it's automatically gonna be a hit like wow like that's why they want to know first where'd you hear that from right right because we're cops yep so you want to ask that question with a question first before you answer it wrong so she said my teacher asked how was your dad and my friend peter said white cops don't like black people look at the news right and the way the news is showing due to pdf in these phones and these cameras all you see in is cops basically assassinating blacks just like that it's like women children babies it's like come on that's just to him is that let me just push on that a little bit uh do you really feel that every day there's there's cops of all colors just assassinating people of color well you what when i say assassinate they don't necessarily got to be assassinating them with the gun they get assassinating them just with the integrity just stripping them from there for their moral figure up against the wall yeah it doesn't necessarily mean with the gun i could be speaking subliminally you know what i mean when i come to assassinate you know what i mean but just the ones that are being essentially monitored that the cameras are catching it's like you're not even giving them a chance like you're not even wounding it's like you're only going to be your first luck first law of training cinemas then ask questions like come on like i would i would i would push back on that sir the only time i can shoot my gun to protect myself and others to prevent a crime from happening and in the in the apprehension of a fleeing felon we were never told shoot first ask questions later you you would get federally prosecuted out here for something like that i mean it just should not fly yeah but but but but it is happening you got people running from the scene getting shot in their back and while that does happen i agree with you there are instances there are instances but they're isolated you know what i mean this isn't this is like 100 a day like i said i i'm not savvy on the full statistics on the ones that are being monitored and the ones that are not you know what i mean so you have some that are that are being documented that the people are finding out then you have some that are not you know i mean so sure i do i believe there are a lot more than what the cameras have caught of course you don't need because if the camera's caught a lot you can only imagine what the cameras have in court that's just that's just that's just how you got to look at it if you can see uh if you can see 50 people get shot in two days from the camera how many people do you think have gotten shot that the camera when the cameras weren't there that's been shot you know what i mean that and that's how you you just have to to weigh it out you can't just say well it's only it's only a few like i i wanted one is a problem one is one is enough yes we spoke about the fire department about how they're being judged if how many fires are put out a fireman should be charged this if if you saved one life right you stop one life from dying you did you did great right they don't have to be ten you saved one yes no i i completely understand and i agree with you when it comes to like what was happening before the cameras i agree you can't when you look at something like project innocence and you see these people who are exonerating i think to date they've exonerated like 500 people in prison wrongfully accused and 70 of them are male black men like as as a as a researcher i have to look at that and say that means something that there is there i get it right so i'm not i'm not going to be blind to it but there's also the component of like you can't hide the body and and if cops are shooting people we know i mean it's just the washington post you know has has been rigorous on tracking the deaths of police officers and again like you you and i agree one is too many but i also think if we take racism and somehow had a magic pill and just got rid of it like racism didn't exist you know for whatever reason you're still gonna have bad shootings because people do stupid things under stress and and that's what i see i see all the videos i see the videos of the white people getting shot the 16 year old girls getting shot white girls i see all the videos not just the ones that are played on the big multimedia fox and cnn just you know the the salacious ones i see the real bad ones too and what i see is there's a problem across the board with like a warrior mentality and i gotta go home at night and so i'm trying to broaden it for everybody to say look you and i agree we gotta we gotta train the cops differently but when i open with racism it's like people especially a room full of male hispanic men they're like man i'm not trying to hear that i'm a minority i'm not trying to hear your racism like i get shot well you know listen and my thing is this even with you listen i don't take nothing from male male hispanics or hispanics at all you know but a lot of hispanics denounce the fact that they're also a person of color as well you know what i mean so a lot of them don't they don't stand on the front line a lot do but a lot don't stand on the front line with like you we went through earlier the darker the skin you know what i mean they feel like that if you actually are you black or are you white i'm hispanic there is no middle it's it's either you what are you you know what i mean so but a lot of them choose to take a stand and say listen that's i have nothing to do with them that's black people you know what i mean or things of that nature so every everyone has a way of separating or isolating the situation well the person that got shot his last name wasn't gomez or riaz this person that got shot may have been williamson or brown or or things or things of that nature but but but let me tap back into it the training aspect so when you train when you're training these training these officers off of a threat what is it what what is the response if a threat is is they're being confronted with a threat well you have to there is a shell you shall make attempts to de-escalate if feasible if feasible de-escalate and de-escalation can be defined as doing your best to reduce the intensity of the encounter now certain people are good at that i think if you and i were partners in a car we're both talkers right we're from a city where you got to talk to people and you and i could talk to people so we're going to be better at de-escalating now some people don't have that gift to gab and that's hard to teach in a six-month academy to just be what you do with them if you if you know you can't teach them that what do you do do you still put them on the force oh yeah they they're still gonna go there and you hope to develop that skill set as you go and but you can't you can't develop that skill set as you go because it's like putting a community fish in an aggressive fish tank so if you already know that they don't they don't know how to de-escalate a situation during training you can never expect when you place them in an aggressive environment to de-escalate yeah that's a very interesting point and i i see it it's well taken for sure

our academy is done by the state so there is a state overboard and the state says here are the minimum boxes that need to be checked and it's subjective i guess to see how good of a de-escalator you are you know it's it's hard to do it they're like well they tried i guess but it isn't how do you determine it how do you how do you scale it it's not a pass fail the way like having to get over the wall is either you get over the wall or you don't like that's a pass fail either you either you shoot a certain score or you don't you know what i mean it's there's not an arbitrary way to distinguish that there's just some people who are better at it

which would you with your children would you when you teach your children you have children right i do not sir but i have nieces and nephews oh so it's different it's different you know yeah with me nieces and nephew is different than i agree if you had children of your own you know i mean before it's a it's a it's a different type of maternal or instinct that you would have when it comes to protecting your own you know what i mean sure of course but my thing is if i came if i if i came to become a police officer and every time you put me in like in a mock interview and how to how to de-escalate and my second reaction my first one is shut up i don't want to hear that and then my second is is is grab would you still pass me because you said because he said there's no pass or fail so either way you so either way it's just like you just need to work on that basically what you're saying you have to work on that try to be a little more receptive to the person that you that's the listener but you still push them through so what you're doing you're basically you're basically pushing an aggressive an aggressive person whose second instinct will technically is really their first because they only chose to exhaust the first one is to try to save face of the training if the second one is i'mma grab you that's really what their first instinct really is because there is no second if i hear

no they're not doing that in the academy they they more they more freeze than anything it's not like they run up that they grab that's like if you know a child if you have a child and you know this person you know that the person in the park is his own has been has been involved with sexual encounters or male of a child pedophile and on and and you he tells you listen i'm i'm done with that i don't i won't touch kids and i want like i'm i'm finished with that right would you let him babysit your child of course not so why so that's so that would be the same thing why would you why would you still what you and i agree on an individual yep so don't say this is where policy comes in place where it's like yo listen because i start to feel like y'all feel like you're the type of guy you're that's needed in the streets because the streets are so tough you got to be strong like yo you can't you you can't be having it like yo you're coming into a rough neighborhood it's like you painting the picture like yo you're coming in the air and the guy's a bunch of these guys are [ __ ] animals like yo they they kill like a sport like yo when you get out there you protect your brother in that car that's you protect it back in his head as he protects the back of your head if you see him in danger you put whoever else down that you need to put down and make sure you and your brother get home it's almost like those are the words that are being indoctrinated until these people that are taking this test you know what i mean you know and that's where i'd love for you to see some other are you ever out west at all do you ever come out this way yeah yeah i i do you got to link up with me when you're out here i want to take you to the academy i mean i want i want to show you the training i'd like for you to see how some of the agencies are doing it new york's a different beast man it's just it's 40 000 strong you know and it's very historic and there's a lot of tradition and and you know other west coast agencies have that but we we're pretty progressive out here with that we're not we don't say those kinds of things it doesn't come up like that it's it's a lot softer of an academy see but with me with me i i want to be around like with this topic right this is a sensitive topic so i want to be around people that are angry and aggressive record and i want to hear them get angry and yell because the topic is so sensitive and whatever they was taught it may have been it may have been lies because how would any child that's been taught the wrong way they find out later that there was that was all lies can build up hatred and then you you guys said and then you've been taught so long that these that that you've been the superior one you've been this you've been that and you've been taught that like in the bible that meek willing hurt everybody blacks take over they're gonna enslave you yo they're gonna take your guns they're gonna do this to you you start feeling like well listen my people are not right but they're gonna make they're gonna rape my women they're gonna kill they're gonna rape my daughter they're gonna rape kaylee or they're gonna get a hold of janet you know what i mean and and it's all lies so they wind up you when you get so deep out into the ocean it's like look i'm already out here now it's like listen i've already been taught from shores this is the enemy and now that i know that he probably is not the enemy i'm so far out of touch from saying i apologize that now it's like i got our mouths to stick to what i've been going through for the rest of my life you know what i mean and that's a sad situation because you can change at any given time you don't have to continue on with that same lifestyle or that same mentality or that same teaching that you was taught sometimes those oats need to be torn down and be built and be shaped you know what i mean but and what i want to tear down and reshape are the perceptions how about if i do it that way the the very biggest impact i had from your film was almost the opening line when the wife came on just forgive me i didn't memorize all that chris's wife jackie jackie and she said try to be a good cop i have it written down try to be a good cop there's not many of us left and when i heard her say that it it and i'm thinking oh we're three minutes into the movie and it hit me you know but then there were these groups of cops that were in these movies that seemed nice there was the big muscular guy and like the french girl you know and this very diverse cadre of people who were good cops right so what i want to tear down like you say tear down my take away an action item is i want to come into contact with as many people i can and show them there's there's still good cops out there like i need to show people that i need you to believe of course oh no i never said i didn't believe that but i meant like the the inner city people you know what i mean like i want them to see that now listen i don't i don't doubt this there's not a doubt in my mind that we believe that there are some good cops out there we just want to know where are they why aren't they speaking up you know i mean there are some that are starting now to speak up you know i mean and they're speaking in in drones now because by yourself you know i forgot to own the female officer that when she spoke out against the unification they took a pension and now she just rewarded the black woman she just rewarded all that back pain and got her pension back from after being fired for speaking out because it's almost like if you go against her we're going to shut you down you know i mean and that's enough and that's the fear factor that they put in place in you you know what i mean know and you have to some people have to be sacrificed you know what i mean but the key is you have to um like you said change your perception the only way you could change perception is through production is showing change you're not going to be able to do it no other way showing showing that you're going to hold your your unit officials held accountable for for the mistakes that they made and speaking out saying look i'm not going to go out there and try to fulfill these quarters and and take black people away from their family they have kids too you know why should i strip them from their level would you like us to come to long island or we'd like to come to the suburban areas of brentwood in in l.a and start harassing your youth and locking them up and saying we just saw you smoking a joint and now we want to we want to put that record and stamp your name but now it prevents you from getting certain union official jobs you know what i mean that's that's usually how it works right they set it up all right i'm i'm i'm gonna lock them up whether it's it'll be a small petty crime but we're going to offer a felony so you don't get no jail time listen we let you go through the system it scares you we'll send you no bail so you get a chance to see righteous allah or the jail for three days to your 1880 day that's usually whatever indictment's going to drop when you come out now you probably feel like oh i don't want to go back i don't want to go back and then lawyer come come in the back and say well listen they want to make a deal with you where you can go home today you could take you could take the felony time serve and maybe do not six months probation but you'll go home today and that's the key to hit you'll go home today yeah and then you say yo but they won't give me no bail no just but this judge right here they're not going to give you no bail we have to wait till the judge changes but you should think about the plea and and you're sitting in a cell with all all those other people saying like god damn i don't miss i don't want to go back man i want to go home in my family i got a job you know i lose my job if i don't so you you sacrifice your future by saying you know what i'ma take that in hopes that you won't get in no more trouble and look something else happens you get yourself jammed up again he's a convicted feeling now you're going upstairs and you're a convicted felon because of a crime you never even committed then you find out from the second felony you could have beat the first one then you're like god damn i would so it it it's it's a pattern yeah i have a friend dr bryant marks and he was on the show and he's an implicit bias instructor probably the premier implicit bias instructor in the nation and he came to our agency and i've worked with him on some outside agencies and he's talked about that he's talked about how family setups can absorb the hit but a lot of people in the inner city can't absorb that hit like hey listen we caught him with marijuana you know you we're gonna let it go but in other situations because he's from new york so he talks about like the jump out squads which looked like that was part of your movie too that the guys in the videos that are jumping outside the van they call that they call that the cage that van that they could be in okay because once they open the sliding door it's a cage in the back that [ __ ] that you're being placed in so that van is called the cage or they call it the blue van there's different vans that that patrol yeah the communities and all in in new york city so all right yeah very personal it seemed you had a pretty good uh intimate knowledge of that those scenes and those guys kept coming around and you know it it felt very real we don't have that kind of setup you know but that felt very new york for whatever reason it it it seemed yeah it becomes antagonizing because the first thing they come at you for you have any id that's that's a new york that's a new york thing okay i was wondering let me see some id and you it's a harass like yo what for what what do you need to see id for if if a crime hasn't been committed right now a crime has been an incident has been being convicted because you choose to want to rebel and give your id so now you're resisting okay it's a pattern you have any id what you want my id for put your hands against the wall right now it's now it becomes an incident because now you you refuse a direct order right but a direct order that was that you're giving me just because of your own personal feelings like yeah with you on my id for i'm walking down the street with no crime what what the same way how when he says when he speaks to him before the cop on cop shooting when he actually when he speaks in the language the virginia is that police did a call coming from central like i don't know if central is the same word y'all use in la is it central is the same is the same no they would say like dispatch or something oh oh see it's central is dispatch in new york it's central you know what i mean did the call coming from central and on and he was hitting him with the language and you could tell his mind was already is already set yes another thing went on when we showed the community ties um when he found marijuana in the young in the college kid's pocket right when he asked them well how old are you you know what i'm right i'm a senior that's what he told him like yo look this one's on me right next one's on you next one's on you you know what i mean just like that where if the tables could have turned let's just say the other officer may have stretched him he may it could it could have went either way yeah yeah he has something on him yeah i caught you you know what i mean because i don't wanna i'm not here to to take your future from you because that's what it does it you shut a person's future down one felony now now he can't he can't go and bear arms no more because he's a felon so now he can't apply for a license for it before right now you can't get student loans all kinds of they get a lot of some apartment buildings now they don't allow you in their apartment building when you try to apply to rent they'll say let me see they do a background check ncic check on you and then they see well he's been convicted of a crime but it was a marijuana crime but that's still enough to say no we don't want you outside the building you know what i mean so it it creates a collateral damage you don't mean and it starts it starts out small that people don't see it but you don't really see your true light until you you spread out you know i mean 18 19 until you get to your certain 20s your mind hasn't even fully developed as a person you're still trying to find direction right and but it'd be just like that and a lot of us don't know the law and are afraid of the lord that on will tell your children yo just take the cop out and come home to your family you're not gonna get in trouble no more anyway right in fact to get into trouble now now you just put a wall in front of me because i'm not gonna be able to apply for this no more now half of my life is gone yeah so now my choices my choices narrow down to where i have to do this now and now in hopes that i don't get caught or things of that nature everyone wants the best in life you know yeah but again it must start with the teaching and and start rooting out and vetting these bad officers and stop trying to be nice to them like yo it's either you protecting it you're protecting the brotherhood or you protecting the integrity of the shield and what it really upholds now if you're protecting the shield same way it showed with all officer officer mitchell i mean mckenzie when he locked his own brother up yeah straight up and down listen i l i honor this badge you know what i mean like i love my brother but i honor this badge and only three people know what happened that was them and god you know what i mean i wasn't there and and that's that's what a true officer that protects the integrity of the oath regardless of family or not like i will be i will bend as much as i can but when i feel you you you trying to dictate and change the narrative and make it harder on us then i will lock you up because the more crimes that you keep and more and just that you keep implementing on people the more danger you place on your fellow brother that's in that vehicle because the person that's the the person that's using commitment and justin is usually not the one that's get that gets caught it's usually a good officer sitting that patrol car that someone runs down and opens fire on him and i'm gonna make an example out of these offices you know what i mean which is sad you know i mean that's why you have to you have to start vetting them out so yo i got to get you out because if i don't get you out my son be done took the test tomorrow and may be a great guy and get murdered just because he's innocent yeah and they want to make an example like yo you shot one of us we're gonna blow one of your kids heads off and that's usually how how it happens and that and that's the level that is starting to gradually reach like when you see what um the congressman is saying after after mark jeffrey shoots the officer for killing his brother for a mistaken cell phone yeah when he tells them you see people are starting to take justice within the in their own hands now yes that's what soon give it happen because when we call the police we're being killed so it's like damn i can't even call you to help me without you coming out to make me become a victim and i'm the one that called you for help so it's like you know what i'm just gonna start taking justice into my own hands and weigh my options and that's what you see what they say i'd rather be judged by 12 and carry by six and and it's funny a lot of it's funny sir you'll have cops use that same phrase and it's interesting how more alike the people on either side are they're so much more alike and i think if they got to know each other a little bit you'd get a lot more you'd get you would just get a lot more i don't know what the word progress yeah i'm looking for that's because there's oats there's oats regardless you know i mean when you choose when you choose your community because it's a community like in your home like in your house your mother say whatever happens in the house stays in this house you don't go to the street until it's going on this house whatever's happening within us you stick you you stick with your people this is who we are so of course we're gonna share some of those same values with that you know that's just the human nature the same way what i'm going to make a horn in my family by any means everyone feels everyone wants to get back home to their loved ones no one wants to be the victim looking up at the sky taking their last breath people were like listen i'm going home to play in bed with my children you know what i mean by any means you know and i'll take my chances by the legal justice system but the difference is you're enticing a situation and you're hiding behind your weapon knowing you're wrong so you you you're coming into it you're coming into it a high escalator situation in any neighborhood when whites come in contact with black it's already a high alert and then you're aggressive yeah so you're not even speaking in a tone like excuse me sir right um we got a call if you could just lift your shirt up show that you don't have nothing around your waist that dude that would de-escalate my safety right and then um i can tell you why i'm here but instead that nine cars pull up guns all out get your hands up get on the floor i'm gonna tell you one more time yeah yeah that that chain that changes the direction yeah that makes it like a word like you're going to treat me less than a man and that's what it feels like you treating me less than a man it's like you speaking not caring how your words affect the listener yeah and that's very important and that's what that's what i wanted when training because if training if training is not is not showing that then that then that means they're not being confronted with someone of color of someone from the neighborhood i believe some of these trainings you should bring people from the street to confront them in here to see how they really gonna how they really gonna respond to real life situations because that that running around climbing poles crawling on the grass that's not happening inside the community you know what i mean like in l.a you rather you ride it down the street where you might run running run across the ar-15 you know what i mean but so you want to know how to de-escalate it by saying look listen i'm not i'm willing to put my weapon to the side put yours to your side and then we can talk you still hiding behind your vehicle so you protected what would still around you yeah and you could de-escalate it through that instead of just jumping out the car freeze

the same way chris jones did what did you expect him to do you you came you came and he's telling you i'm an officer and i'm using the language to show you i'm telling you my bet my my shield is across the street in the jeep just have one of your partners have your partner go over there to validate it but no you have a hidden agenda so you shoot so what you expect me to do my instinct my training instinct kicks in survival oh [ __ ] he's trying to kill me i just made an oath to my wife i'm coming back home mm-hmm i'm gonna return fire and if i die he's gonna die with me right well i think that you you said something and i think that is something we can collaborate on we should have people who want to are from inner city and say look i'll test these young cops let me let me teach them what it's like to deal with someone that's irate and then we got to train them like you said we're not training on de-escalation we're mandating it we're putting in policies but policies aren't going to work unless we train people on how to do it and i could see a future where you and i could get people you know from from maybe the inner city and say look i'll show these cops what it's like to get yelled at and then that when it really happens in real time like that one character the female was saying look these guys are scared they grew up in the suburbs and their first encounter with us is in the inner cities again as a gang as a gang filling with tattoos all over my face they're overwhelmed that overwhelms somebody of course so maybe some you do have some that all like that you know yeah but that's why that's why a lot of times just certain before they used to have police policing communities that they're from so you already know them yeah so if it's if it's a domestic dispute i already know that you and denise are always fighting so i can come into your home and you could call me by my first night jack listen just take a walk you know what i mean before i just lock you up and embarrass you in front of your kids and tackle you put my me all on your body right i don't i don't want to i don't want to dehumanize you and make you look less than a man just take a walk and let's try to neutralize this you know i mean instead of coming in with aggression right right the same way with the cell phone it came in with aggression first thing he jumped out let me see some id he said his friend is telling him officer i got him i got him officer it's not a problem first thing he does is push right when we was filming the officer didn't do that originally i had to tell him you are in control uh-huh if he tells if he tells you i gotta remember you the officer take control uh and he he came in and took control and pushed him right and then grabbed him and mistaken cell phone automatic [ __ ] the glare right right that he had a weapon that's that shows the fear yeah or he's going to kill me yeah like come on we we're not we're not thinking about just going around chilling cops right or or killing people in general you know what i mean like yeah but we want to protect we want to protect what's ours as well you know what i mean so if he would have just said listen can we have a discussion yeah all right that's your friend bring him here i would like to have a discussion you know what i mean let's talk i just want to see his idea i'll give it right back i'll bring his kid his mother over let's just de-escalate this let me show you uh let me let me give you some information on how you can see your child without beefing out here with what you're doing it's only hurting the child but instead you come in in a high red zone area that's already aggressive right and then you you pulling up with aggression right aggression what aggression leads to disaster that's just the way it goes that's that's what it breeds and that's where we failing a lot you know i mean we're not giving the proper training or we're still pushing them through it's like yo you failed yeah i can't put you out there because you a hot head right if i let y'all put you out there you gonna you might program the per your partner in a vehicle to turn out to be just as hot and then now i got two hot heads so before i let you change the one that you drive with every day you not making it this term you you may need to try next year right but this year i can't afford to have you because we are already at a high alert problem with communities right now yeah and things like that and then another scene with when he asked him could he retrieve the radio back if he didn't have community ties right he wouldn't get that radio back but he was able to go into the community because he was respected in the community yeah and got there and got there and retrieved the radio back but community times does that lack of community ties it's like yo y'all not getting that back yeah the way you want it and you know this is and look you're you're you're the producer you're you know you know this better than i do and i wonder when when uh he said you know [ __ ] the police was that a little bit of a call back to the old the old you know rap days with with the music part of me wanted him to say hey man they ain't all bad but i know that's wishful thing you know yeah listen listen for one you can't you can't use iced teas music as as um imitating life with his music his music is a reflection of what he's seeing in his community but as you see he's been a cop on law and order yeah for several years right so that shows you his his balance and his mindset yeah however of course you can't expect him to say they're all good like nah that's because we're not going to just say that that was something that the female was able to say deb was able to say look which people would not expected her to say that because everyone thinks blacks is only talking about [ __ ] the we hate the police kill the police you do have them but then you have some that's like like nah you can't blame them all same way you got your officers i'm going out there to shoot some blacks then you have something like nah we're not going to do that you know what i mean so absolutely so we we can't we can't we can't dismiss or rule out that you know what i mean those people exist but they but your job is when you when you detect that that problem exists is to get rid of them it's not penalize them or mandate it like how we said we mandated instead of rule like it's got to be like now listen you got to go you know what i mean you need to do some more training then you can come back but until then we can't have you in here because you're gonna lead to this officer being killed because it's usually the other officer that dies not the bad one that's being [ __ ] right like you see in the movie the cop who got knocked out wasn't that it wasn't the [ __ ] cop that was his partner he's gonna he's protecting his partner yeah he was trying to cop but he wasn't the right the other one was the [ __ ] but he gets knocked out yeah it always happens like that let me let me get him you're going to drop him yeah you can't get this one right here i hear you man you don't see him i've had you now for almost two hours and i want to be respectful of your time for sure and and i want to have you back so i and i really appreciate you giving me your take on this and there's so much more i feel like we could go for even longer but i usually end with with the question i give to the guests and and if if you could reframe if you could take a perspective and say look let's just look at this from a different angle to try to solve this problem what would you reframe in the race and the policing sort of controversies and crisis that we're dealing with to help make some progress well we know in in life you can never really remove race because that's what life have you look at it race is always going to be there but i would say respect respect your counterpart respect that person that man or that woman don't don't be so quick to pass judgment on them you know i mean hit them out not everyone is guilty this and it's like not everyone is innocent hit him out you know i mean before you so quick to hide behind your weapon that's what i would think and um the main thing is going to always be is accountability like your the officials accountable for their actions because their action causes reactions you know what i mean and the reactions is what makes a department look bad and remove remove remove these quarters i think a lot of these quarters need to be removed you know what i mean if if you're my partner and you get three arrests that means i get three arrests right or the precinct gets three arrests why it shouldn't be um an individual censorship it should be a general censorship you know what i mean of a data bank if the precinct tallied up 100 arrests in one month the precinct did 100 arrests it's not this one did 100 arrests now we're moving him up to be detective because he has 100 arrests he took ten guns off the street but what how many people did he had to beat up and how many that he had to do before he found those ten guns you know i mean it's like if any person that stands in the rain long enough is going to get wet that's just right that's just the reality choice yeah let's just come on if if if i'm targeting a hundred people a day you're bound to find some guns sure you know what i mean that's true that's just that one exercise yeah at what experience like if i come into a rural a worldwide area trailer part if i run down on 100 whites i'm is it about a time before i find pcp or some oxycontin or or a needle or meth or needle in one pocket you know that's just the reality to it you're good you're gonna you're gonna hit your mark eventually you know what i mean but but your objective shouldn't always be that your objective is to keep keep the crime rate down you know what i mean just because a person you may think a person has a gun i don't think he's gonna the crowd as long as it hasn't been pulled out the crime rate is down right that's the whole objective keeping the crime rate down like we all know there's snakes on the floor but the snake ain't a problem until he raises his head if he don't raise his head he could go he could rule all around your feet we know that there's snakes on the floor but just don't bother them they won't bother you it's interesting i like it that's just the reality to it yeah i i really appreciate you you you being just raw and and uncensored and and just speak in your mind and from your heart um i i enjoyed i enjoyed your film i enjoyed being able to discuss it with you i think it was iced tea that said that he said i i might be miss coin but respect be gets respect or respect earns respect or something like that and i think exactly yeah i thought you know that that is at the end of the day to get to get to get respect is to give respect right right and i i want to work with you in future endeavors i'd like to work on that training idea i think we could revolutionize and really put some meaning behind de-escalation and teach these young people i think that that's going to be our that's going to be our call to action you and i yeah for sure i'm not supporting that just let me know i really appreciate you being here thank you so much for your time thank you i appreciate you as well thank you i enjoyed this thanks for listening to policing in america with sergeant tom datro if you have any thoughts you'd like to share or if you have any suggestions on how to make positive change in regards to policing in america head to my website and send me a message thanks for listening