May 11, 2021

LAPD Officer Deon Joseph's Open Letter to Lebron James

LAPD Officer Deon Joseph's Open Letter to Lebron James

Los Angeles police officer says the NBA start hasn't responded

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Join Sgt. Tom Datro and Deon Joseph discuss his open letter to Lebron James and why he is hoping to work with him to save lives. The talk about comments by Kamala Harris, racism in the policing, and the importance of being more proactive in regards to mentally illness. 

  • Open Letter to Lebron James in response to his tweet.
  • What it's like answering questions on "big media" shows 
  • Mental Health Issues on Skid Row and beyond
  • Having "the talk" about police with children 

Connect with Deon Joseph on:



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15:14:42 Whatever happened to, you know, put the facts out there and letting people just for themselves.
15:14:47 That's journalism, in my opinion, for the most part, not all but for the most part is completely did. And we didn't have a friend in the world and to this day we still don't so yeah it's a lot of things going on to actually really hurt me really, and
15:15:00 you hit on so many things that I, I talked about well whoever will listen, if somebody gives me an opportunity and says, oh, what are you talking about and I will go on and on about this like, for example, I get this idea of peacefully protest, and people
15:15:14 will come to me and say, well, work the majority of those protest peaceful to which the answer is yes, the majority were right the millions of people that were growing but you had hundreds and instances, thousands and some, but for the most part, but
15:15:31 then I say, so let's use your logic, and let's turn that around aren't the majority of police context, peaceful, like if we're going to use that same logic and say the majority of protests were peaceful, except for these rare events these 2% of them.
15:15:46 Well, I my retort is always the vast majority of police interactions are peaceful. So can we use that same logic and you see it, it, the cognitive dissonance kicks in and they put, y'all, and they don't want to use their own logic, you know, to, to understand
15:16:01 their own points of view.
15:16:12 Exactly. It's, I was just on one news network and it was funny wasn't funny because they came for me, like they were waiting for me with the setup. And, you know, they didn't want it.
15:16:14 They wanted me to say that every police officer is inherently racist, it's almost like they were trying to pressure me to say it. And so finally I just got frustrated I said I'm not going to do this.
15:16:23 I'm not going to throw 800,000 men and women on the bus see a lot of people have been really brainwashed to believe that when I go out in the street, it's like a never ending episode of training they really believe that yes, like this is like not even
15:16:37 an exaggeration. So when I'm talking to people when they say well you will you will. Why are your officers racist or why are these these vague and ambiguous question that there's no really right answer to, except for the ones that that suits their narrative.
15:16:51 Well, why are all your white boys shooting the black people so I was talking to one lady and she goes, why do you guys want to your white officers only always shoot black people with a we shoot more white people, but here let's put it let's put into perspective,
15:17:03 70% of officers who work in police departments across the nation are white. So, seven times out of 10. If you are coming in contact with them, whether it's br traffic stop coffee with a cop face painting with kids.
15:17:19 And unfortunately, even deadly force.
15:17:20 Seven times out of 10, that's where you're going to contact that's why and they go, Oh no, just defending systemic racism no I'm giving you facts and logic and and I say you have to stop judging the guilt or innocence of an officer or anybody for that
15:17:34 matter, based on their skin tone. That's very dangerous in fact it's racism and it's wrong and I cannot believe our public leaders and officials are embracing this and jumping on the bandwagon when these things happen and they're creating more hey I understand
15:17:48 it when it's Joe living with his mother in the basement, you know, you know, you know, whatever, you know, playing with himself on his laptop and and every now and then taking a break to look at copy videos right but when it's our Congresswoman or congressman
15:18:02 or senator senators that that that's really dangerous and it's really destructive, especially to people to cover in the end. So I'm going to pull on that thread a little bit because Sam Harris talks about this in his podcast and the name of the podcast
15:18:14 is is titled, can we come back from the brink, and you touched on something when a vice president. When Kamala Harris says and this is a person with a major platform who's been very successful, who says it is very dangerous for a young black man to walk
15:18:30 the street, for fear of being killed by the police okay so just that statement comes out, and I'm paraphrasing it, but it is very similar I'm probably a word or two off.
15:18:40 Now, as a young black man, if I'm in that position and I get stopped, my, my first thought is well you're clearly coming for me because very powerful influential people have told me this, you know, not like my cousin Eddie or Uncle Joe, like, vice presidents
15:18:56 and congressmen and speakers rights over, so it's a natural instinct to push back. And when you say it's very dangerous. Do you also mean, because this is now giving the false idea to somebody that the only reason they're being stopped is because they're
15:19:12 being hunted because of their color and so they should fight back.
15:19:16 Yeah, what you do what you end up creating, especially if someone has influenced with Kamala Harris and the president everybody else on down, is you create fight or flight primers in people's minds.
15:19:28 Over time, and you end up creating the escalation for something that should only last seven minutes. Now it's 1020 minutes now it's coming get off the car now it's a struggle and, you know, depending on how serious it gets can eventually lead to a shooting
15:19:41 which is rare but it happens.
15:19:43 Right. One of the things that in my community, the black community I was talking about the talk with your kids. Oh, It's time to have the talk about police context, you know, everybody has a talk where the kids in most most communities like Hey kid, let's
15:19:56 let's say you the white community, put your hands tended to turn a call, be respectful Don't be a dope, and you'll be fine. Right here's the top. Here's the top they give us to tell our kids.
15:20:03 Okay, turn your car off, or they're going to kill you put your hands on the steering wheel, are going to kill you turn your dome light on, are they going to kill you.
15:20:22 Don't run. What about to kill you and all the kid is hearing in the end is no matter what I do, I'm going to die. I've never seen it like this Tom where you're sick that was six years ago just six, six years ago, was my last drop of traffic stop, and
15:20:27 everybody else stop where there's black, white, Hispanic, it doesn't matter who everybody is pretty much hide your I go What am I do You're a liar officer, true okay I'll sign a ticket See you in court you're lying bastard.
15:20:37 And that's right I can handle that. Now, everybody asked you stop now on a pit stop is. Oh, you're going to shoot me officer, how many bodies have you are you gonna do, are you about the body me officer yeah for some for some that's just a stick, because
15:20:49 they are now part of the movement, and they feel the need to challenge and I and I'd say, I told one guy said we were just afraid you're going to shoot us I said wait a minute.
15:20:59 You're afraid of me you're serious. Yeah, I said, Sir, if you're afraid of a grizzly bear was programmed to mall black people.
15:21:06 Why would you poke the bear. If you're really afraid. That's great. And like I said, You're not afraid of me sir, you've been conditioned to say that.
15:21:14 Let's make this easy, I'm here stop you because of x y and z. I have my reasons absurdity blah blah blah go through, but let's start with the vitriol don't turn this five minute stop into the six o'clock news Please don't.
15:21:27 Absolutely. And we're not getting any favors I really do my best to try to look at things fairly but when we see the news. And when you have people of influence saying, nobody should be stopped.
15:21:38 I'm sorry, nobody should be killed for expired license plates, and this is in reference to the one incident in Minnesota just north of what happened, where that female thought she had a taser and she fires the one shot and you could see she is surprised
15:21:50 as all get out that she shot him.
15:21:53 It wasn't shooting him because he had expired plates. She's, that was the, that was the impetus for this engagement, but now he's trying to get away She thinks she's taking them.
15:22:13 puts on the news, and they hear somebody of influence say nobody should be shot for expired registration. Well, certainly didn't shoot him for that. It's called propaganda, and it starts a with our activists who love to the layman they love putting out
15:22:22 simple things where they where people don't have to think See look it's not that people have not are not intelligent. It's just over time when the age of social media and the and the hate that's going on because he has just addicted right now.
15:22:35 People become intellectually lazy or they lack intellectual diligence. So the lay man, all you need is a short, sweet catchphrase male black shot for jaywalking or Hands up, don't shoot.
15:22:46 That's for the layman you know who's working 20 hours it doesn't have time to really dig into the weeds and for the people who are lead and the level of intelligentsia.
15:22:55 All you need is a few $10,000 words.
15:22:58 Some suggest the power of suggestion subjectivity that sounds like objectivity, some historical facts mixed in with current events that you play that over again you put a slave catcher bag picture PD badge, and you show it to a kid over and over and over
15:23:10 again after all the brainwashing begins and and they become a, you know, basically brainwashed into hating look the most evil man and we talked about this all the time when we do the PSL course, the most evil man we all can agree and the 20th century
15:23:27 of Hitler and me saying this about him is not giving him a compliment so please don't say oh big pillar. He's an evil disgusting human being but there are a lot of evil disgusting human beings who are very very smart.
15:23:40 And they understand human nature at all hinder understood that you can bring people together for a cause, faster using hatred that you, then you can with love and understanding and if you want to know how difficult that is to bring people together with
15:23:54 love and understanding, as Dr. Martin Luther King, oh we can't someone murdered him on a balcony and methods. Okay, so I don't fit there's said this he said, Tell him I keep it simple and repeated over and over and over and over again until everyone believes
15:24:09 it one of his lackey says tell a lie one time, or crazy like nobody's going to believe you tell that same lie 1000 times, everybody's going to believe you and what was July told about the Jews back then that Jews are inferior or superior all because I
15:24:24 because of Hitler got flunked out of the art class right and he held that that harbored that anger for so long. Then we became he became an adult and gained some power and influence and got with the brown church and did what we're seeing now.
15:24:37 He ended up killing 6 million Jews and 4 million others. What was a lot of told about African American men in the late 70s 80s and 90s that all black people were criminals all black people are criminals and now I'm in an elevator with a lady, and she's
15:24:51 questioning her purse, you know, or I'm getting asked by even my own people. And you just you just get out of their joint because I got these big arms and legs right, you know.
15:24:59 And what's the lie. what's the lie being too I feel bad about that.
15:25:04 That's why being told about police officers right now, the lie is keep it simple. All police eight people of color or for the intelligentsia that all caps may not be racist but as long as they're engaged in a systemic racist system that automatically,
15:25:18 they're racist but you keep saying this over and over again and unfortunately, educated people are buying into it and like I said our politicians and our college professors are pushing it down to a whole new generation of young people and what they're
15:25:31 actually creating is that that automatic conflict when cops come and they're causing it more than we are. And it's unfortunate. So Dan let's, let's go with that for a moment because I'm, I'm getting some stuff to with with the producer as well.
15:25:45 I have been on the forefront of the implicit bias the procedural justice the de escalation. The PSL class, just for listeners it's called police science and leadership, and it was a class that I kind of helped created and Deion now helps me deliver to
15:26:00 all the young officers so when people say officers need more training I just read an article in The Washington Post not too long ago saying how police officers are are pushing back against the escalation.
15:26:11 And I think where are you getting this from Come Come see with the kind of training we're doing and look at our body worn video go to LAPD online critical incident review and look how many many times our officers are de escalating or attempting to.
15:26:25 Now I'm going to ask you, do you think as you hear this term a lot this systemic injustice is or institutional racism. Do you think those two either independently or together are an issue in the profession of law enforcement.
15:26:40 Here's what I feel, I historically Yes, historic and yes, police officers have been used to oppress in different parts of the country at different levels.
15:26:49 But I think with any other profession, police forces have evolved to where it was a systemic issue to where now it's more of individuals who have that inherent problem that we all agreed need to be weeded out because when they rear their ugly head.
15:27:05 It makes it hard for us to explain to people that we have evolved I mean, how have police departments become more more community oriented and have done more outreach but the chasm has become lighter.
15:27:18 How does that happen. How does that happen this is not the 80s you remember the 70s and 80s. Remember the steroid era, you know, on our department you know where cops were just showing up and just putting people on show codes because they're just going
15:27:29 through road rage. And then, you know, 60s and 70s you had officers who were coming back from the Vietnam and Korean War and a suffer from PTSD and back then, there were not a lot of resources from there for them back then.
15:27:41 So I'm not saying racism didn't drive them as well but also it may have been some factors of PTSD and unchecked mental illness going on with a lot of those individuals, but things evolved and when you and I came on the job, Tom, I think we got the same
15:27:55 amount of time on a, we had learned more about human relations in Spanish, then how to keep our heads from being blown off of our shoulders in the police academy I remember that.
15:28:06 And I remember how freely I was able to speak to my classmates about the issues that African American community, why how why we felt the way we felt, and they actually listen, I need to get blackballed I didn't get put into corner.
15:28:18 So that was the change 25 years ago and just advance to now like now we've got even more training the implicit bias training sensitivity training, mental health CIT training, training on autism.
15:28:32 We have all this training, and I'm not saying I'm against training you can never have enough training, but what more do we need it right now it's no longer a training issue just on the police part, the education has to come to the other side as well because
15:28:42 through education comes safety, because once again you have to understand there are individuals who are getting their information about the law from Facebook attorneys who are purposely putting out there and misinformation, as well as this information,
15:28:57 and that's even worse when it dis information when it's done on purpose. People don't know I was talking to a group of kids, and he was telling me a story about, oh why does this officer pulled me out of my car he didn't have the right to do that I said
15:29:08 yes he did. Did he pull you over legally well yeah I did run a stoplight okay he had the legal right to pull you over right Pennsylvania versus Mims Supreme Court ruling, a police officer has the right to have you step out of the vehicle at any time for
15:29:19 any reason, he didn't know that, because his internet lawyer friend was telling them the cops don't can't do this, cows can't see your ID, because qat qat qat qat lot of people don't understand one kid I was talking to at a juvenile hall, he says, well,
15:29:42 I said, If I had you in custody, and I don't plan on question you I don't question you about the crime. I don't have to read you your rights. I spent a lot of people to jail without reading their rights, because like I said like I let detectives talk
15:29:53 to them. But people don't understand it and they're being Gaslight on purpose, it's, it's, it's so, so bad right now. It's so bad we can't win, it's really difficult, and you know you, I try to do this with data, and I'm learning.
15:30:06 It is unfortunate but I'm hoping that people listening will at least be inspired to say well let me, let me look at this, when I try to when I was on the lines out there and when people would talk to me and they would say well there's been no change in
15:30:17 policing, you know you guys have always been this way and I've heard this with our leaders, they'll say we keep hearing and Van Jones will say you know what, when is it going to change and and i and i just say let's just look at the rates of the prison
15:30:29 population from 20, like 13, and then you go to Pew Research and look, these, these numbers up from 2013, the rate of prison population has declined steadily in the United States, Hispanic population has remained about the same whites declined by about
15:30:44 13%, the black prison population declined by about 22%. So here's. If we haven't changed, we would expect those numbers to have like the whites would drop into black would keep going but it's not the members of the black community are going to prison
15:31:01 prison less often than people who are white, like we're ceiling progress, like progress is happening, and I mentioned this to everybody, I'm just curious Dan if you have you ever heard of the name, Tony temper.
15:31:14 Does that name ring a bell. No sir, it goes, Okay, and a lot of people don't. This is from, you know, I knew about this from PSL because we showed Tony temple was a male White, who was called the police and said he's having an episode he was overdosing
15:31:27 on drugs. He was held down by officers for about 15 minutes on video you look up Tony tempo on YouTube, three officers suffocate them death. He literally starts saying help I can't breathe, he asked for his mom, it is eerily similar to what happened to
15:31:42 George Floyd, and I just asked people watch the video. And why don't you know Tony tempos name. You know why. Well, I do. Go ahead, you know How come nobody knows his name, he's got like 6000 views on YouTube, and George Floyd has 2 million, go ahead.
15:31:56 Well, well, well here's you have to understand that a white life is not exploitable. Okay, that's that's what you have to understand look when I talk to people in my sphere and my circle of influence you know they go Why are why we see a police aren't
15:32:19 black, why are we seeing all these videos of black okay, because we're not looking for the white ones, go to YouTube, and put into put in search for unarmed whites killed by police. And if you and I know they spread it out on purpose, but you will find 25 to 30 videos of officers getting into shootings that would
15:32:27 officers getting into shootings that would be considered questionable if they were black of white people and I have some doozies for people, and it, like you said the word cognitive dissonance.
15:32:35 It's almost like they're allergic to the truth. I'll pull out my phone and show you it says this is a 16 year old white kid who was killed unarmed. This is a 25 year old boy who was accidentally struck with a bullet backup.
15:32:46 Here's a female white with a knife charging an officer, because you guys show a picture of officers are not arresting white people in daily situation, and you're doing your cherrypick and you're doing that on purpose.
15:32:55 But here's five incidents where personal officers didn't and they sat further, and it's almost like it's an anathema to them oh my god gave you the truth.
15:33:04 And here's the thing, like said, Black Lives are exploitable, you know, I think we just just came out to some director of a, of a major news network was caught it just admitting that yeah we were trying to help BLM, so of course we're going to essentially
15:33:25 one over the other. I mean, it was just caught saying and people watch that and they still don't want to believe what's happening to them so yeah we are the in the most gas lit time in American history and I don't want to say that racism doesn't exist
15:33:37 on police departments, you know that's not true, and it varies depending on where you go, you know, but I can't say is like no other time in history, police departments are trying to change they're trying to root, root these people out, but it's not easy
15:33:51 to do until they rear their ugly head, like I said people really think I work in a never ending gay about training day or colors and it's like that's not true.
15:33:58 I work with white officers black officers Hispanic or if it was the way people believe it is Tom, I would take off my bag right now and go, Oh, yeah, I know that's not true.
15:34:10 That's why I won't quit. I percent if I was surrounded by a systemically racist division with systemically racist cops who who spoke in vitriolic terms you know using racial epithets, I would leave immediately I want nothing to do nothing.
15:34:23 I'd be fired because I'd be in a fight. Yeah, I agree.
15:34:28 I testify against a supervisor who text a racist joke to one of his there, and they were friends but at the time they were arguing with each other so are racist jokes on your friends is one thing but it's different.
15:34:39 You're mad at each other. And I saw that and I was offended so of course I stood up and testified again I testified against an officer who kicked the suspect while I was Hey while I was handcuffing him that officer had no right to do that and you should
15:34:50 have seen it that day, you had supervisors everybody grabbing that compensate what the effort you doing it pulling him away while the rest of us were doing the real work of trying to take them safely into custody so I'm not saying these things don't happen,
15:35:02 but I find out about most policemen comics conduct, like, the average American does by waking up in the morning and turn it on the spot news, you know, and, but once again I don't I don't deny that there's an issue, but let's just not pretend that police
15:35:23 are trying, they are, and and no so no I don't believe in locking stock into the whole systemic theory. And I appreciate that now I heard someone very wise, save this and you might know this guy when you hear these words, and we're going to transition
15:35:31 a bit to some you're not just passionate about but incredibly noble for taking on policing is the dumping ground for failed public policies, is that sound like something you may have heard that sounds like a nice.
15:35:46 Exactly. That's a Dr. Joseph ism, and when I heard that it resonated with me because it's a very, it's intellectually, you got to think about it, the policing okay so that the idea of policing is the dumping grounds for failed public policies and I'm
15:36:02 going to guess that some of these pitfalls failed public policies is engendering or creating this problem crisis, for lack of a better word of those experiencing homelessness and homelessness I you know there's two terms that I'm still trying to figure
15:36:17 out what what what context is right there are those who are experiencing homelessness. And then there are those who are just homeless and and can you talk a little bit about what, Maybe you were referring to what failed public policies.
15:36:30 Well the policies, a school system prison the prison to preschool to prison pipeline. You know where we're not teaching our kids. Excellent. So we're not teaching them what they need to survive.
15:36:41 We're not teaching them tort law and civics. We're basically turning our schools into indoctrination camps, so they come out, woke, but they don't come out, educated, and they end up, you know, that that's one way you fail them.
15:36:53 You still the schools are overcrowded the kids aren't getting the education they need, and now they're embracing mediocrity in schools. So the second thing is, where was I lost my train of thought so yeah the school all the school we met the homeless
15:37:07 crisis, the homeless crisis has now become exacerbated because they're attacking it the wrong way they're not being realistic about why many people are are struggling with homelessness and you got to realize that two thirds of the individuals that you
15:37:21 see in the street I like what you said there's difference between homeless and homeless. There's a homeless person who lost their job, you know, domestic violence.
15:37:30 That's that individual that individually usually gets back on their feet depending on the economy and six months to a year they, they're beating down the doors of a program.
15:37:38 Matter of fact, let me ask you a question, Tom, if you lost your house today would your first inclination be to go set up a tent and one of the most dangerous places in the United States of America, and wait.
15:37:47 Nope. And every for everybody I asked that said hello I'm going to the shelter I'm going to stay with them.
15:37:52 That's the homeless on that side but then you have the homeless, who have been homeless for years because of addiction and two thirds of them are on the street because they're struggling with addiction.
15:38:01 And we've taken away the carrot and the stick approach we've taken away mandatory drug programs we've made possessing a serious narcotics misdemeanor now basically it's an infraction and they don't have to go to a program.
15:38:14 And because of that, and it's now spiraling out of control just go see San Francisco and see downtown LA and see how the problems getting worse and then lastly, the last systemic failure is mental illness.
15:38:25 And to this day. We're in 2021, and our society still believes that we can solve for health the mentally ill in 72 hours or less, and that's wrong because we're not just dealing with just mental illness as a police officer I know that it's not a crime
15:38:44 to be bipolar paranoid schizophrenia, have depression. I know that's not a crime and when it's just that that's pretty easy for us to deal with. But now we're dealing with something called dual diagnosis when it's that plus something else and when that
15:38:53 something else is Marcato addiction when they're addicted to crack cocaine meth and heroin spikes, and yes, even marijuana marijuana may not affect you will be the same way and I don't smoke marijuana, by the way, but to have somebody who's struggling
15:39:14 illness, it can exacerbate their condition, 100 fold and the system still thinks that we can just all when they're in crisis handcuff and bring it to one contract hospital. Let them stay for, it's not even 72 hours anymore. Oh, they'll be there for six hours, how are you feeling of course the person is going to
15:39:21 hours. How you feeling of course the person is going to say, I'm feeling great let me out of here and I'm gonna go smoke crack, you're going to run into a police officer they're going to jump off a building, they're going to get your support for the cop,
15:39:29 and the cycles going to continue. So when we didn't to use as a force are these negative context written, I work skid row we do a damn good job. I mean for what were the mental health capital of the world we do a damn good job.
15:39:40 But when someone is going through that, and we get into these negative context as a result of using force, it's not because of a lack of compassion or lack of training.
15:39:48 Okay, it's due to that systemic failure, what do you do when there's a chemical buffer called cocaine or myth between you and the person, struggling with the mental health crisis.
15:40:01 And I tell people all the time they say well you guys should have mental health clinicians, with you at all times which I, I welcome that. Sure. We've done that we've done that we've already shown that we tried that.
15:40:11 The problem is when these folks are in crisis and they're swinging the bat in the middle of the street, a mental health clinician is not going to approach them they're going to call any way.
15:40:19 And that's what people don't understand, especially in places like skid row where there's so unpredictable and dangerous, so we have to stop beating people these lies.
15:40:28 I believe that we need more, a more proactive outreach to the mentally ill. You know when you see somebody a mental health clinician see somebody in there in a calm state, try to work with them develop a report.
15:40:39 You know, we need that.
15:40:41 But we need to change the, the length of when we hold people who are really serious about helping them. If you 72 hours or less is not going to help somebody who's been busy and I'll crack cocaine for six years.
15:40:53 Okay, it needs to be about six weeks if you really want to try it. Here's why.
15:40:57 A you have to detox them first, you have to get the drugs out of their system so they can hear you.
15:41:02 Then while you're counseling them you have to give them their medication, on average, the average person struggle with mental illness. It takes six to eight weeks for their medication to actually take effect or for them to have any benefit to the therapeutic
15:41:15 attributes of their medication. And while you're doing that and developing a rapport with them. You also need to connect them to their family members and let's streamline the process of conservatorships, so we can get these individuals home so they can
15:41:27 stop becoming a police problem because I don't care what law you pass, what what policy you change, it's always going to be a police issue. So once again, it's not because we hate the mentally ill because the system not only failed them not only filled
15:41:40 the community. It also fails us and makes us the scapegoat for all society's problems when things go sideways and those are the those are the things that we change those things, all man we will see a dramatic decrease in.
15:41:53 In these negative context but also the fourth prong to this and once again education. We have to bring back tort law and civics in schools, and have somebody explained it to these young kids in junior high school high school what their rights are when
15:42:04 contact the police. But don't just leave it there, you also have to explain what the rights of the police are as well so they'll know that oh yes the cop can pull me out of the car, or yes can be conquered search me because of X y&z.
15:42:17 If we do that, we can save so many lives rather than engaging in this propaganda against police departments and making a scapegoat for your failures. Id I love it and I didn't know that you and I bought we share this vision of changing curriculum in schools.
15:42:32 Why did as a kid did I learn about how to pass a bill on Capitol Hill, like they're all these things, but I didn't learn anything about civics, I didn't learn anything about tour.
15:42:51 I try to explain to them probable cause reasonable suspicion. This is what consent is this is why I can search you, they have no clue, they know it right and they think you just make this up so I love this idea of changing our curriculum at a young age,
15:43:00 and saying look, this is your rights like I want police to have limits on powers, right, because I'm only I'm pulling in this uniform a certain time during the day, right and then I got to go listen to other people that are in your in uniform so I want
15:43:28 healthy limit on police hours, so I was actually right or wrong, sorry. No, I was gonna say there's two sides to this whole issue and that's the Crime Control side, which is very important and the due process side. And if either side gets too much power it can be disastrous for
15:43:32 it can be disastrous for communities okay if Crime Control side gets too much power you can end up having more people getting their rights violated, and a negative taste in the communities mouth as to why you're in their community so that's too strong,
15:43:43 that can be a problem. And if the due process side gets too much power, and now they have all the power and they're running away with it which is crazy there used to be this balance where it kind of would swing back and forth, depending on a server it's
15:43:53 it's not going to swing back anytime soon. And when they have too much power, guess what, criminal element gets a stronger foothold and guess what we'll end up meeting again, maybe 10 years from now, another crime bill, which, when we get, and once again
15:44:06 that was a democrat thing to know so let's be real.
15:44:10 You know, so instead of going that route. That's all. Just take a step back, take a few deep breaths and just say, let's figure this out let's take the hate vitriol out of the, the process of talking about policing and mental health that stopped the finger
15:44:23 pointing and let's come to the table everybody needs to be the table because the person they got a lot of people trying to change policing who never wear a badge in their life right.
15:44:43 They don't know what it's like to be in that heat of the moment situation or to write a ticket and get called everything but a child of God. They have no and they're, they're trying to dictate to me how to be a top light. If you want to change it, you should
15:44:45 should ask the guy on the street. Hello. And I can tell you that there are some, some changes that are needed because I agree there are changes that are needed absolutely everybody needs to be at the table.
15:44:53 Yeah, everybody. And and I really had a lot more hope out of the final report of the 21st century Task Force on policing back in May of 2015, I was hopeful, because what I saw where these pillars of procedural justice and implicit bias and I thought oh
15:45:09 my goodness finally agencies are going to start doing what the big agencies are doing your New York, Chicago la Philly Houston like they are training is very similar in the Big Five right and I was like okay because you don't see as many of these instances
15:45:25 in the Big Five you know it's usually the smaller age smaller agency and not take anything away from Atlanta or somebody it's just not the same. You know it's not the same as in New York or Chicago or LA.
15:45:36 So I thought oh this is going to be good, but it seemed, it was more of an opportunity for people to come in and start talking about, well here's the problem, you know, it's all about bias, you know, it was like this life is all about multiple variables
15:45:52 coming together to do something but for some reason the complexity of police work can be boiled down to three things racism bias and history you know and it's like it's so complicated, it's crazy and even their history, they're they're purposely misinterpreting
15:46:06 history. It's called revisionism. Okay, like I'd like to talk about when they put a badge of a slave controller and a PD badge, next to each other and brainwash these kids look policing didn't start in the south.
15:46:32 Right, birth there, but now right this whole generation is thinking that it started in the south. No, it didn't.
15:46:28 slave patrols came around 1704 but it's 1638 they had watchmen, then it went to a day and night watch, and then it started graduate into more professional policing around 1800 but slave patrols are relegated just to that.
15:46:38 And of course that merged morphed into some of those guys becoming police officers when they had their professional police department in the south, which enforced Jim Crow laws but on the west coast.
15:46:48 I was police departments founded the US Marshals and the sheriff's right there was no correlation to the slave Catcher in North Carolina or South Carolina there's no correlation, but they've taken that, and they've taken that back because guess what security
15:47:02 officers had badges. Okay, firefighters have badges, you know what, you know probation parole probation. Your, your bounty hunters, this is how I equate that the the early slave patrol people.
15:47:17 This is like the modern day bounty hunter of today, like their police adjacent, you know, they get badges they work vests and whatnot but it's not the same.
15:47:26 They don't enforce laws, they don't protect people and property their sole purpose was to capture torture and main slaves who tried to get free, and also regulate the plantation.
15:47:36 They didn't enforce law. Now of course, some of them like I said when the slavery ended Of course they probably joined ours but they didn't just join police departments, they became farmers, they became doctors they became lawyers.
15:47:46 So racism was just a part of American culture, but with everything. Everything evolves and if we don't acknowledge that that there's been some great improvements and like you said it's some departments less some departments more.
15:47:58 If we don't acknowledge that it's like, where does it end, you know, you know, because like, I'm sorry to say to the public, there's going to be another controversial shooting.
15:48:15 Okay, there is. And the reason why it's going to happen is because our job is as unpredictable, as humanity is and we're just human beings doing it. And if we don't get back to that rationale and just instead of jumping to racism.
15:48:21 Every time I believe we're going to lose our country and we're already are in places like Chicago Baltimore New Orleans. Police are backing off we're told to back off their numbers are dwindling and guess what people are dying.
15:48:34 I mean in some states it's so bad. Some cities are so bad if they're having drive through funerals for people who pass it will pass away. That's how bad is happening and yet you still don't see the need for law and order for police to build relationships
15:48:46 their communities and be present. I'm sorry, we're this country is going to be New York in the 1990s and the next two years, we don't so have somebody step up and be responsible say enough's enough is critical race theory thing is not working.
15:48:58 Let's back off. So, the this is so many things, Roland fryer he's the economist, out of Harvard, he did a big study about He said it was an empirical look at the the race of police officer and shootings He said it was the most significant finding of his
15:49:14 career, that the white officer is statistically less likely to shoot the blessed suspect and he said by ratio two to one and there's a whole study and Roland fryer.
15:49:24 He was he's tenured professor at Harvard male black.
15:49:28 You know believes in the movement, but it's also a numbers guy. And so he set out to show numbers and he was like, I can't believe this is not what I'm seeing, you know that it's not the white officer it's policing in general.
15:49:41 Now, it's a police officers are more likely to use force against people of color, that might be OC or a firm grip, but he said when a deadly force, it's not what everybody's saying now he just did a study recently that said, When police departments are
15:49:57 forced to make changes because of riots and protests, it equates to about 900 more lives lost 900 more African American males, very specifically, and we could look to start up if you look up Roland fryer and talk about forcing forcing police reform will
15:50:16 equate to more lives lost.
15:50:18 And that's what I tell people, people say well when you bring up black people dying in the streets, you're just trying to flip the issue or the two aren't mutually exclusive.
15:50:26 I'm sorry, they are exactly relevant because when crime is high. That's why police end up in those communities. So yeah, and reason why they use is a force or more higher, it could it be racism for some sure, but for others it once again remember I talked
15:50:40 about the fight or flight primer being put into the minds of the African American community that could also be a part of it too because I'm finding that unfortunately because of the the the environment today and attitudes towards please.
15:50:53 Yeah, the two years ago a guy I could say hey dude man Calm down, turn off your head when you're back he would now he's arms or flailing he's eating oh yeah it was football, come from me Come get it come get it come get it.
15:51:04 Yeah, I'm going to use a force. So once again this is a movement at doing more damage psychologically, and then fit later on physically to our to people of color than anything else so you're, you're spot on and I read that Harvard study.
15:51:22 And when I read it, it was like nobody's going to care because people love the juicy lie that suits their narrative, they just love it. They don't want to hear the truth anymore and that's really, it's really disheartening really now both sides of the
15:51:34 political aisle, red, blue. They have issues, I'm not going to call one side more moral or ethical than the other, um, there are things I agree white there's things I agree with that the democrats say there's things I agree with on the republican and
15:51:47 then my independent sort of libertarian mind comes in, but I will say what affects us tends to be the world of policing right so my political my political, I guess, appetite, or awareness tends to be what politics are surrounding policing and what I've
15:52:02 seen it appears to be that the Democratic Party in general tends to be a little bit more.
15:52:10 I don't want to say against policing. That's not fair to say but it definitely seems to be a little harsher on policing then on the, on the other side.
15:52:19 Do you notice that or am I am I not fair, what, what do you think of that deep down inside most people from the democratic side know they need to believe, but they have to survive, when they find out that one group now has $200 million backing them, and
15:52:33 they're getting donations they go where the money is. Because they don't want to get succeeded, which we saw with the district attorney's race for looking at going so I have to survive, politically, so I'm going to have to talk to talk a little bit and
15:52:46 bend a little bit and sacrifice people's safety just a little bit so I can survive.
15:52:50 But when you do that once a year and we're just going to lose ground and you're not going to get it back. And you're going to end up creating what I call a knee jerk policy making.
15:52:58 away and officers ability to use OC spray based on an incident. Now, so you're taking away one more tool that can keep us from having to go to our firearm from officers off of one incident Look, if we look at the medical field.
15:53:13 We've had doctors misuse scalpels and kill people, but nobody's talking about taking away a doctor scaffold. You know, it's just right. It's just, and I'm sorry for saying yes, it's asinine what's happening this knee jerk policymaking that's not make
15:53:26 now in Chicago, they're talking about, you have to get permission from a supervisor to go after a dangerous suspect. So now not only have a week in the law where suspects basically carrying a gun it's like getting jaywalking now.
15:53:37 Now you can even chase after the individuals who are causing the death of people of color in those communities. So, that's my problem and like I'm liking Tom, I'm not left or right, I actually I cannot stand the extremes of both sides because they were
15:53:50 created there what's creating this divide. I'm right there in the middle and I believe from a place of objectivity is where you can see how bad things are getting, like, I don't believe in neutrality.
15:53:59 Anybody who's neutral on the issue is a coward and if you're neutral you can't stand with me, but there is some benefits to being objective because when your objective you step back and take your emotions out of it, and you look at the facts and look
15:54:10 at the context, and you figure out where to land, and that's the difference. And if we all as a society could step back and once again. Yeah, please meet police departments need to continue to improve, but you also have to trust that that's happening,
15:54:23 don't just wait for some sensationalized incident to say I'll see 21st Century Policing didn't work. That's right away and this brings up. You can't do that you have to give things a chance and even on our departments on shootings have gone down gradually
15:54:36 every year exponentially Yeah, some of the 810 minutes they wanted us to implement to change we were already doing it without you can't wait. Yep. You can't wait.
15:54:45 We were already doing it and now you have flipped and go well now we don't even want police officer parks what happens when police aren't in parks, they taken over by gang members.
15:54:53 We don't want them talking to kids in school what happens when I would talk to kids in school that teacher who super world is going to tell the kids that I'm their enemy.
15:55:00 You don't want them anywhere in society, and I cannot believe we have people capitulating and bowing down to this mindset when we need each other more than ever before in communities.
15:55:12 Yeah, when I say color. When Legos says they're going to stop making toys of police officers, you know, because it's going to trigger or it may be harmful.
15:55:21 You know, it is infuriating to think, let's not try to solve this you know you see these videos that are getting leaked of students on the zoom classes now where teachers are saying are you saying police officers are heroes.
15:55:33 Some of them have done this and some of them have done that, yes, some doctors have done bad things some Dentists have groped people when they were under some lawyers has swindled money from the elderly like there are bad people in the human race.
15:55:48 And, you know. Yeah, but please. Well I was gonna say, I focus on these three professions, because they have people's lives in their hands and that's teachers, doctors in the military.
15:55:58 In one year, doctors killed 250,000 individuals through malpractice accidents and misdiagnosis. Okay. Most of those people they killed where people of color.
15:56:27 But nobody's saying the fund, doctors, we've had teachers. Most teachers we know are decent human beings, but there's a negative exception of teachers, and who molest kids we have one teacher molest 28 first graders okay yes and some of these guys have
15:56:23 done things so horrific but they do what's called the dancing lemons instead of fire then they put them inside of like little classroom or they're looking at porn all day and they don't have to teach and they're still getting paid, but nobody, you're
15:56:33 still sending your kid to school. Why right because when that reality exists, the military, anybody who serves their country, in my opinion, is a hero.
15:56:42 I love you guys and I thank you for keeping me, keeping our Treasury safe, but let's not pretend that horrible catastrophes hasn't happened how it happened.
15:56:50 come by. Absolutely our, our profession is like it's kind of like a tag, you're it, we're going to use your profession. To quote unquote fixed, racism, but what I'm discovering is not reading even about fixing racism it's about a power grab every movement
15:57:09 needs a villain. Every movement, like I said hinder needed the Jews, you know, every movement, needs a villain the republicans and the democrats democrats the republicans, you know, atheists need churches, you know, certainly take that your show the worst
15:57:24 you show the worst of the culture or group that you hate purposely, and then you over time you can convince everybody that they're inherently evil, and that's what's happening with policing today and it has to stop.
15:57:37 I'll. How does it stop do well, like I said it right now.
15:57:44 I've never been in a position in 25 years where I lost hope, but with the people in power right now, like I said, when it's the guy on the street, that's fine.
15:57:52 When it's our leaders, I don't know when it's going to stop, but once again if we do want to slowly swing the pendulum back to Saturday like say I'm not looking for people to be 100% Pro beliefs.
15:58:05 I'm not looking for that we're not perfect, we do need to be held accountable we do need to be scrutinized because we have people's lives in our hands, I get that.
15:58:10 But I am looking for once again the school system to change to where they educate kids again about the law.
15:58:17 You know we need our college campuses we need balance in education. Before the George Floyd incident for his murder. You know I was requested to go speak on college campuses.
15:58:28 They won't even allow me on it and I'm like I'm one of the best police officer you ever want to know the most loving caring Captain wonder if you ever want to know.
15:58:35 And now I can't even get on college campuses to explain why police do X, Y and Z.
15:58:41 So we really need to change that we're going to just be balanced in our education from the college campuses, and universities all the way down to middle school.
15:58:49 But now it's even happened in the elementary schools where they're they're trying to introduce you know things to kids these are children. What did they tell you and me when we were kids about police officers that if you get lost.
15:59:09 They're your friend. Absolutely.
15:59:02 I can imagine some kid who's lost, not even coming to me right now, and I'm the only link to getting them back to their parents because of what they're telling children the brainwashing that time, they're telling you that they're, they're more dangerous
15:59:13 to come to us. Yeah, yeah, they literally are this is not even a joke, right and it's really sad it's really sad now when a kids being sexually abused, and we need to really sit down and get at their level and start talking to them and finding the truth
15:59:25 to get them out. We're not getting that anymore. You know, now I used to work a juvenile I was a juvenile investigator and, you know, it was already hard enough to try to convince a young miner to come home and be with their family again to reunited with
15:59:37 their family and I can only imagine how hard that job would be today.
15:59:41 So once again, it's just this movement is doing more damage than good. And then the various people who are tying our hands like that they're not even doing anything to help those people, they're not even doing anything so it's this this, I don't know,
15:59:53 I just see this being Dante's Inferno in America where the next 10 years, we don't swing the beds in the back somewhere to sanity.
16:00:01 So I'm curious with this I've had family, and I've had tried to have discussions with family about BLM, and there's always this idea of BLM the movement, and then BLM the organization, this is what it seemed to come down to.
16:00:14 And we've reached out to BLM and said, Hey, come on the show have a conversation with us tell us what you want, and they've told our, you know, our my producer, they've said we don't collaborate with police, you know, full stop.
16:00:27 That's it. We're an anarchist group, you know we don't we don't collaborate unfortunately want nothing to do with police. And I tried telling this to my family they'll say well you know this isn't representative of the entire the entire group of BLM to
16:00:39 which I say well Derek Shaaban isn't representative of all the policing.
16:00:43 Right. So, if you're going to use that logic here, beat please be consistent and use it there. Yeah, but what what is your take on the BLM be at the movement or the, the organization, how do you deal with this as a black officer.
16:00:57 Well, once again I'm in line with you. You know, if you're a movement that refuses to talk to the thing you fear, or that you're concerned about, you know, you're just end up being a movement of divisiveness and hate you know best.
16:01:12 that's the problem. I have friends who are like I said they agree with the Black Lives Matter movement, like I said, I agree with the phrase Black Lives Matter, so I know what it means.
16:01:21 It means black lives matter to, you know, you know, I agree with the phrase but the actual mode of operation of the actual movement to me is causing so much of a chasm and it's been fear in, and once again you fear can be used to gain power, and it's
16:01:38 them. And of course they don't want to talk to us because we if you have if you talk to us, you might hear the other side and it might just make sense, it might just make sense so when you're that locked in to what you believe where you don't even want
16:01:51 to hear from the other side that you're rallying against just to understand them, then that spells trouble, and once again when they can get into the ears of athletes, they can get into the ears of politicians and and really take root there.
16:02:06 That's scary that's going to be scary for your community, if when that happens, so yeah I don't hate Black Lives Matter I don't hate the folks, you know, but I'm sorry what they're doing in my opinion is causing more harm than good to people of color.
16:02:21 Yeah, and it's interesting I have, you know I'm up in an area north of north of Los Angeles and I have neighbors about various colors and backgrounds.
16:02:36 And when I asked my neighbors of color, and I'll say so you left Inglewood, or you left Compton. Why, why do you want to live, you know appear Do you like it up here because where I'm at is probably a, it's mostly Hispanic because all of Los Angeles County
16:02:44 is mostly Hispanic but it's Hispanic than white than black than Asian, and they'll say, all I love my diverse neighbors, like my neighborhood. People can't call my wife, if I try to save money if I'm trying to do certain things, they pick on my kid because
16:02:58 he's intelligent and he's articulate and here I feel very welcome. And it's interesting how the BLM movement makes it seem like there's this oppressive, like, like racism is just around every corner, waiting to get up and go.
16:03:20 Good, no good.
16:03:19 I was arguing that the people in my neighborhood who, who will like leave the area where you would think there'd be no racism right there are people that look just like them BB, they're all black communities, and they're like no I had to get the hell
16:03:31 out of there, because that's where the hate was coming from. I needed to come here, where you would think racism would be lurking around every corner because there's white people on this man if it's not just black people.
16:03:41 Yeah, yeah. Well, the way that the conditioning of this new generation of folks today is like they see racism in every single thing. And, and how, how do you live like that.
16:03:53 I mean, I grew up with tangible palpable racism and delayed say my father I had process burning on his front lawn and he saw great ground his for my great grandfather.
16:04:04 He saw him getting murdered real palpable races and made my father wasn't that woke, you know, right right he didn't see racism and everything, so I don't understand how you can how your blood pressure is not one at over 140, you know, just just just
16:04:20 walking the earth, trying to find racism, see right now. Racism is like a witch hunt, you know, that's fine the racist, and it's gotten to the point to where if I can't really find racism in you, you know, let's just, if you disagree with me then I can
16:04:34 brand you a racist or I can brand your job you do racist, therefore you are racist by default. That's the logic today and I don't understand how people are just even existing or their heads are exploding from living their lives that way.
16:04:47 I'm a black man, I'm a proud black man, I've been a victim of racism, even to this day, you know, I, you know, but I don't have time to deal with micro aggression I know there's bigger things in the world for me to worry about, then somebody who's looking
16:05:00 at me funny because I have dark skin, you know, as long as you don't say nothing to me or text me. You can stay standing I'm not gonna put you on your back, you know, don't mess with my family were good, but we're in this weird error where we just have
16:05:12 But we're in this weird error where we just have to attack people, you know, just on site on GP, and I don't know how people can live with themselves.
16:05:19 These kids are so stressed out now, you know, and they haven't been they haven't been through half of what I've been through all my brother or my father or his father, they haven't been through half of what we've been through, yet they feel like they
16:05:30 come out of school.
16:05:32 As if they've been through 400 years of oppression. I don't get it right don't get it. This is what's interesting, I'll share a quick story with you I was working the Obama street gaming festival.
16:05:42 So this is a few years back and I've. It was so was Martin Luther King drive, and I think they changed Rodale or in LA, it's called rodeo right but in Beverly Hills it's Rodale so they changed rodeo to Obama brock obama Boulevard, so I'm working this
16:05:57 festival, and it was a big beautiful festival and that the intersection was shut down and it's all primarily Southwest. It was primarily black community members that were there and I'm riding a bike.
16:06:09 And I'm saying hi and I'm talking a whole bunch of people, and I see these two elderly gentleman, I'm gonna say north of 65 years old probably 70, and one of them's wearing a hat.
16:06:19 And it's red and it says, make OBAMA, PRESIDENT again, and the other one has a hat on that says make America great again. And so I kind of stopped, and I'm like, gentlemen, I gotta ask is this on purpose, and the two of them just start giving each other
16:06:34 the hard time to one guy's like, although he's still on the democratic plantation and he looks at his buddy, and he's like, well, this guy decides that he's going to be white he's a racist with Trump, and they're like, man, and you can see these old cats,
16:06:46 cats, just kind of going at it, but right I said but wait a minute, are you guys friends and they looked at me like, it was like the dumbest thing I could have asked and they're like, Man, I've known this guy.
16:06:56 All my life and I don't care who's in the office. I'm gonna vote my way he's gonna vote his way by the end of the day, neither one of those people are coming to help me.
16:07:05 If an earthquake happens or if my kids need something. We're neighbors we've been friends for decades, I could rely on him for anything, not as politics maybe sketchy, you know, and then they gave each other our time, but I thought this right what happened
16:07:18 to two people that can walk down the street and have two different views right like Trump hat. But right you got a cop who on the Capitol Police was wearing that Trump had to try to get into the crowd to get them out like What a great idea he was a black
16:07:35 officer. He wore the head he's like look I'm trying to get in with these people I want to keep everything calm. What a beautiful de escalation tool, and he's been vilified right he's all disguise wearing the hat because he's part of the you know the movement,
16:07:49 and it's like you can have more than that but these two gentlemen were able to do it. And I have family I can't even mention if I were to say the word trauma, like it's going to be a trigger for it's over, but these two can just hang out together in broad
16:08:02 daylight and and kind of bigger a little bit but then left because at the end of the day, I think they both they've been around the planet long enough to know.
16:08:11 Yeah, this is the same as the head I'm pointing to the head. This isn't as significant as you may think it is your neighbor more significant, would you would you agree with that.
16:08:19 Oh I want 100% agreed I remember the days where you know me I was a lifelong Democrat for majority of my life. I kind of walked away from it several years ago or now I'm an independent Rob So Rob independent in mindset I don't want to be associated with
16:08:33 Independent in mindset I don't want to be associated with this new version, but there were days where as a Democrat, I would get to the Bates at the gym with Republicans, and they will be, you know, sometimes they get heated and sometimes to be down but,
16:08:45 but, in the end, we were still fighting each other still joking. Because in the end, like you said, all that stuff is not important. What's important is right here what's in that person's heart.
16:08:52 I know Trump supporters who are some of the most decent human beings, I've ever met, really kind of people they may not have liked this character but they agree with his party, his policies.
16:09:03 I know people who are super liberal Obama Hillary supporters hardcore they can do no wrong. And I get in discussions with them they're beautiful human beings, and we're letting politics divide us like never before.
16:09:14 And, you know, and the other end of the spectrum is now once again we have the this new generation who who feels every bit of oppression and I've talked to some of these Can I said look, you didn't know you were oppressed until somebody told you.
16:09:28 Right.
16:09:29 That's something that's something my dad told me when I was the first kid to bring home three F's in my family, because I joined an activist group that said we're not going to learn the white man's math, we're not going to learn the white man's English.
16:09:41 I mean, two plus two is four isn't racist but I bought it. Right.
16:09:45 So I didn't study. Back then, you know, it wasn't like it was extreme now but back then it without that existed so I told my dad I didn't want to learn the white man's education.
16:09:55 And my dad you know it was the first time that I ever saw tears in his eyes, and if it wasn't for Magic Johnson winning a hidden the game winner that day I probably would have got my butt kicked, but he comes in the room.
16:10:06 He sits me down and he said, Son, I never told you about this, and he sat me down and talk to me about all the horrible acts of racism committed against him and his family in the deep south.
16:10:17 And I'm sitting here like, Oh, this is great yeah thanks for telling me I'm all excited. He says, No, I didn't tell you, tell you that for you to get excited, you know to validate your stance I didn't do that.
16:10:27 I'm telling you this because you're growing up in an era where I did you don't have to go through this sign before you join that group. You want it to be a scientist and a writer.
16:10:38 Yeah you believed you could be anything you want it right I said Yeah Dad.
16:10:41 All the sudden you join that group and now the white man's holding you down. I don't want to hear that come out of your mouth. You know, we used to get killed or lips for trying to learn and try to read.
16:10:50 Okay, the library's write down after you take your ass down on the library and you could be just as great as any other man. And when he he put it into print in such a way to where he freed me.
16:11:00 He freed me from those mental shackles and it helped as I went through life. I'm not gonna let anybody bring me down I know racism exists. I know it exists, but I'm not going to let it paralyze me to the point to where I can't move forward my life.
16:11:14 And that's what I'm trying to tell people about the my own sons about racism it exists, you know, but, you know, you're going to worry about a speck in your eyes You're going to not see the boulder coming at you.
16:11:24 And that's what I'm seeing with a lot of these young folks who are buying into this movement, they're worried about so many specs and the specs are not going anywhere because there are human conditions, racism, apathy brutality, these aren't police traits
16:11:35 they're human traits, they're going to be everywhere, no matter where you go in life. So while you're so hyper focused on that you're missing out on your own life your own personal growth by stepping out and say okay instead of me hating this group.
16:11:47 Let me talk to this group, instead of hating this guy because of political beliefs. I want to know why you why you support Trump or why you support Biden, and it's just have a conversation we have to get back to that in America, we're going to lose our
16:11:59 country, very fast, very fast. I agree with you 100% on that my producer brought up an interesting point, and it was in response to when you said, when we were talking both of us about how young children are being scared to go to police officers, and
16:12:15 they don't even want to call police officers now there's some. There's some debate right now going on that McKay a Brian, who that was made the, the one who was had the knife in her hand, who was shot by the Columbus police officer, the one, the one the
16:12:28 whole LeBron James incident. There's some speculation that she was the one who called the police. And if people grab that if people say hey look she called 911, asking for police and when the police got there they shot her.
16:12:45 How do you, how do we deal with things like that like when we say we're here to help you know and then you have these instances that that just turned out so tragic once again that goes to education that the law Graham vs Conor, you know, the police might
16:12:58 not even have known that that it was heard that call, I mean think about that officer. He shows up and steps into chaos. I mean, if you saw the body camera that whole Yeah, I mean, you're a police officer and I do runs up and kicks a woman in the head
16:13:11 right next to you right oh yeah and then you really seeing you and they're clearly seeing you, you know, yeah. And then you see a person you don't know if this person is old young Did you see the back of her wearing back a knife to a puncture another
16:13:26 human being, you know, you know, we have to get back to that mindset is ok you have that information after the fact. Should we but when we get there. We don't know exactly who called, we don't know what they look like based on their voice.
16:13:38 All we know is we respond and also you have to know there's been times where the person who called us there, ended up being the primary suspect you know once again like I said Our job is unpredictable as humanity is and no two days and no two incidents
16:13:49 are the same. So, we can find a way to get explain that to the public, and have them listen to the general public. Join us citizens Academy, please go through a shoot don't shoot simulation, we've had some of them are our most ardent detractors go through
16:14:06 a shoot don't shoot simulation. And when they were done, they got it. They understood, but JOIN US citizens Academy.
16:14:16 Go to sc pad meeting go to do whatever you have to do to to reduce your fears about police and understand the other side as I did when I joined the police department, and I promise you that will help bring some things down to help you understand because
16:14:27 gram vs Conor it sides with the officer based on what they have, at the time, you know not what you think. Not the information you received three weeks later during the investigation, you know, because once again you know he could have called the police.
16:14:41 but when the officer got there that was just crazy and and he didn't know who was who all he knew was, oh my god, somebody who's about to take a life, I have to react.
16:14:50 Yeah, now it's interesting that there is some case lot of that and there is, there is a little lack of empathy with officers they, they are only as good as what their brain can process.
16:15:03 And when you step out of a call, or step into a call, and you have to take in all that data. I mean, you know, somebody comes home from a long day of work and and their husband or wife is just talking about their day, and they're like, just stop, let
16:15:16 me just walk in the door without the dog licking me, and without the kids saying daddy and without you telling me take out the garbage, and nobody likes in danger.
16:15:24 With all that right when you still are like just stop.
16:15:30 I'll do my wife has been my support system I rocked it was beautiful woman on the planet, but I did the arguments all the time and please good where she's not coordinating the papers right now sitting like, really, really oh ok I just saw this I know
16:15:43 right, to understand, we're not robots. Okay, you know, when people say well you guys are highly trained in the academy, really, you know, I'm highly trained in scenarios where I know I'm going to go home at night, you know, absolutely not.
16:16:00 When I'm when I'm at the range qualifying I'm shooting at a target. That's not shooting back at me. So of course, I'm going to be 10 ring all day it's just all day I'm not going to miss I'm pretty damn good.
16:16:13 But it's a little different when someone's shooting at you with a nine millimeter or 45 or ak 47 or running at you with a knife or sword, because then the human factor of fear kicks in and fear, unless you've been in combat or something like that.
16:16:28 Fear is going to kick in, and you're going to either Miss make mistakes. Are you going to forget first thought is that, oh no no lie My first thought is right, my friends, oh shit rights you know yes and people think that, you know, every day we're in
16:16:42 these situations you could go five days and nothing happens. And then that one day into watch the world starts burning, and you have to react to that so know you can never be prepared, we can have the training that that that gives us a baseline, on what
16:16:57 to do for policy and under state law, but when it really hits the fan, your fight or flight, we have fight or flight just like you. We have fear just like you would only just between you and I, is we have to use our fear and push past our fears to complete
16:17:11 a goal, you know, where you have the luxury of running or hiding, we don't we have to try to problem solve, in a chaotic situation. And so that's what I need people to understand we're just flesh and blood just like you.
16:17:23 I'm dealing with, we're not dealing with I'm palm collaborating with a doctor, she's a Harvard doctor and she's now out of the Stanford Huberman School of Human Performance, and she had brought up an interesting thing she had her profession is the study
16:17:38 of fight or flight in the brain, like this is what her body of work is in neuroscience and she said when she started studying police officers. It was very interesting that the whole fight or flight.
16:17:50 The whole flight was taking out of the equation. So even if that officers instinct is, I need to get the hell out of here, because that's a natural it's because you don't know what you're going to do, they don't have that option anymore, so they may make
16:18:02 a bad decision. And so when she started to study this she was like, Oh my goodness, the fight or flight response which is innate and normal and every human being is not even an option for these officers so they're thrust into these scenarios where, where
16:18:16 their instinct would say I need to get out of here but I'm going to make a decision.
16:18:21 And I, and they're not in the right frame of mind right because their mind is saying go do this, and they're having to override that and now shoot, four times at somebody or or shoot something they don't want to shoot it.
16:18:32 My dad told me this one time when I was dealing with a bully in school. And he said, fear causes mistakes. Yeah, don't fear causes mistakes, and what you said was so accurate, you know when I've been on scenes where I was terrified I responded to North
16:18:47 Hollywood. And I, I remember the broadcast that there was a couple of more people in black mask running around the area I was standing in, you know, and of course, you know, I, as a police officer you have this obligation, I can't run, but I'm posted
16:19:03 up with my shotgun next to a telephone pole about the shoot the first thing wearing black coming out. Yeah, I thought it was our own Metro and SWAT officers doing building search, and somebody was phoning it in.
16:19:16 But, yeah, fear, can cause mistakes, even for the most highly trained individual, you know and like I said, because you're highly trained it doesn't make you invincible.
16:19:27 One of the best police officers we ever had great hearts.
16:19:31 His name is Randy, and he was a highly trained highly trained decorated SWAT officer. He did everything right and guess what he's still lost his life tragically, so that can happen to him.
16:19:42 Imagine someone who's not training on that level, going into a hot situation trying to figure out, okay you're trying to put your, it's basically you're trying to put the finger in the dam, you know, where, where's the damn going to break and if I put
16:19:53 my finger here, then this will crash and I take my finger off here, but it's really chaotic, I've been in situations like that where people are running this way in every which way and you're trying to figure out oh male black with a T shirt, okay that's
16:20:06 not the people here.
16:20:07 Right.
16:20:12 70% of the people with the protest.
16:20:26 You know, so people don't understand we're not robots, and we're just human beings, dealing with human beings and and mistakes are going to be made delayed reaction like some people why did you fire that shot two seconds after the shooting stop because
16:20:27 there's a scientifically, there's a science behind it, that your brain sends the message to your limbs a little bit late. Yeah, fire that exercise, you might throw that extra punch.
16:20:39 So that may not have to do with racism or brutality, it's just science your body just having that delayed. You ever see somebody get knocked out my brother's a fighter, and somebody get knocked out and while they're going down there still throwing punches
16:20:50 two punches Oh yeah, you know. Yeah, that's part of it, that your brains last transmission is what you're going to do you know until your, your you realize that things are calm down and your brain transmit data as well so people don't understand that
16:21:03 there's a whole lot of moving parts to this, that we don't always have the defaults or racism, you know, if we just step back and think a little bit more critically and we have law enforcement are allowed to talk about these things.
16:21:15 We should be at the table talking about these things because like I said, if you want to know how to reform police departments, a good person to add.
16:21:22 It's a cop. Absolutely. I've had I've had the pleasure of being punched by your brother, and luckily my, my survival instincts were sharp and I was able to take the me before I tried to punch back, because that jab comes fast and hard man.
16:21:39 Yeah. Your, your body of work, and something that I am so just impressed beyond words with you is your work with Skid Row, if you could give one thing if you could refrain.
16:21:52 The viewpoint if you could get into our mayor's ear, and he says, Dan, you have the one for the day. You get to make one policy change you get to make one thing from the policing perspective, and homeless or, or that problem that is Skid Row, what would
16:22:08 you change what would you reframe what would you do, let the police do their job.
16:22:16 Let us do our job. And, and while letting us do our job infuse India enforcement help.
16:22:25 We were doing that, we were doing that through a program called SOS where we arrested somebody for a minor charge they didn't kill anybody right. But if we knew that mental health drug addiction chronic homelessness was driving to the commit these crimes,
16:22:38 we would put them in a 21 day program for whatever their need was and if they completed the program, guess what, we dropped the charges, and it was a very successful program in one year we got 2225 individuals signed up so we were able to enforce the
16:22:53 law, but incorporate, you know, programs to help them. And not only that it extended to our jails and prior to them, even getting in handcuffs the city had a program called a level where before you then come in contact with a police officer, you can go
16:23:09 get your records costs are your charges dropped. As long as once again, we're not giving you something for nothing. You agree to go to a program, and it was actually quite successful so law enforcement can be a part of the solution.
16:23:22 But when you tie our hand and say we can't be a part of bringing safety and improving quality of life, guess what, now they're criminals have taken over, they have completely taken over the streets where I work.
16:23:34 Now they're texting the homeless to live on the sidewalk I know a poor lady who has to pay our entire social security check to live on the sidewalks of Skid Row, we're finding high powered weapons swords guns methamphetamine cocaine in these tix.
16:23:49 And if you don't allow us to do our jobs, things get worse because listen because I always say this. No one should be above the law, what happens when rich super rich people are above the law we have Enron, we have stock market crashes we have people
16:24:00 losing their houses their life savings, and it creates what crime.
16:24:05 What happens when the other extreme the extreme poor are made to be above the law, you have Skid Row and exactly, and it exacerbates. And that's, we need that middle ground again that the police do their job, which you can infuse outreach in that you
16:24:20 can infuse outreach within that, that would be my, my magic pill for fix and it's called crowd control, not prime stuff. Yeah, if you think we're ever going to completely stop crime You're crazy, because as long as human beings exist somebody is going
16:24:34 to break the law, but give us the power with Crime Control so we can at least control it and save more lives and guide people but some people need a push to get into services.
16:24:43 And without that puts they're not going to get the help that they need.
16:24:46 That's awesome. And now, Dan I've had you here for some time and I got to be cognizant of your time is valuable and I know you're popular, so I'm going to I'm going to close us out here, but I'm hoping I can get you to come back and maybe we could pull
16:25:00 on some more some more threads, if you don't mind.